Does anyone know the background on why 38 Super was developed?
Since 9x21 and 9x23 pre-existed, why develop 38 super?
CC
Does anyone know the background on why 38 Super was developed?
Since 9x21 and 9x23 pre-existed, why develop 38 super?
CC
That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state;
9x21 essentially a 9x19/9mm. The case is 2mm longer, but the bullet is seated 2mm deeper.
It's not a real competitor to 9x23 or 38 Super, it's a 9mm for people that live in a country where civilians can't own a military caliber.
I did find this excellent internet article, but it really doesn't tell me why.
http://38super.net/Pages/9X23.html
CC
That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state;
The 9x23 is an evolution of the Super. The Super predates both of those other rounds, and itself came from the .38acp. It was basically what was needed to have a .38cal semi auto pistol.
Note that the .38acp predates even the 9mm Luger, and was used in guns like this; http://www.icollector.com/Colt-Milit...e-191_i9301841
Paging Tam for a history lesson..................
Why - More power is more better. Especially when punching through low carbon auto bodies (or at least, that's what I was told).Originally Posted by cclaxton
The Super predates the other two by a bunch of decades.
Best info I have on the .38acp, from which the Super came, is that it dates into the 1890s
So, I asked the wrong question: Then why the 9x23, if the 38 Super had already been designed?
CC
That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state;
The 9x21 was developed to skirt ipsc's ban on 9x19 loaded to major.
The 9x23 is a rimless (feeds better, stacks better in the magazine) super with a thicker case web (enables imprudence).
9 super comp, and the like, are rimless alternatives to super that do not do as much to enhance case strength.
9x23 was in a sense developed by Jeff Cooper, so I am required to think it's a good idea.
Ignore Alien Orders
I've never read that as an argument for 9x21's creation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%C3%9721mm
I'm not saying Wikepedia is an authority on gun related items, but this jives with all of my other data-points.The 9×21mm pistol cartridge (also known as the 9×21mm IMI or 9 mm IMI) was designed by Israel Military Industries for those markets where military service cartridges, like the 9×19mm Parabellum, are banned by law for civilian use.
Derived from the 9mm Super Cooper- .223 cases cut to 38 super length.
I believe the 9x21 was originally developed for civilians in countries which do not allow civilians to own weapons in Military calibers and later adapted to IPSC use. It's an alternative to .30 luger in such places. There is a similar round called .45 HP, basically a civilian legal 45 for countries like France and Italy. This is also why you will occasionally see runs of export AR-15s and Mini 14s in .222 Rem.
The popularity of the .38 super ( and now 40sw & 10mm) in Mexico is also due to their prohibition on possession of military caliber weapons and ammo. This used to extend to Mexican state and local LE as well, though I believe this has changed, at least for agency owned weapons.
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