Ah, gotcha.Originally Posted by Tom_Jones
But if we're using Gunbroker vendors, the M2 is a $950/shipped shotgun.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=555324600
Ah, gotcha.
But if we're using Gunbroker vendors, the M2 is a $950/shipped shotgun.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=555324600
I'd report the fuck sticks charging a CC fee. That's generally not allowed with their CC processing agreement.
Sent from my Nokia 3310 using an owl
Think for yourself. Question authority.
Regarding credit card fees, 3.5% is a conservative estimate of what it costs to run a card. Every time I run a card I get hit with at least 2 different fees.
If I pay a $4,000 foreign patent attorney's bill for work done for my client in their country, and my client reimburses me $4,000 with a credit card, I lose money without adding a processing fee. So, there are legitimate reasons for these fees. If you object, go to the Post Office and get a money order, and avoid the fee. If you get screwed on the deal, then the seller will have the Postal Inspectors to deal with.
Last edited by BillSWPA; 05-04-2016 at 08:16 AM.
Any legal information I may post is general information, and is not legal advice. Such information may or may not apply to your specific situation. I am not your attorney unless an attorney-client relationship is separately and privately established.
Hmm, was unaware of that.
That's all well and good, I always knew no matter what those fees were being paid by the customer but the manner in which they're advertised is dumb. Especially before the 2013 change.
Sent from my Nokia 3310 using an owl
Think for yourself. Question authority.
FWIW, all I'm saying is that typically if you find one make/model of a gun for $200 less somewhere else, you can find another for $200 less at the same vendor, or a third vendor if need be. So comparing prices at a single vendor, or within several single vendors, is the way to go. From what I'm seeing, the Beretta is a $150-$200 cheaper shotgun than the Benelli. What I don't know is (a) does the Benelli have problems the same or different than the Beretta, (b) is the Beretta better in other ways to the Benelli and (c) is the Benelli better in other ways than the Beretta.
It would appear that if the answers are (a) no, (b) no (c) yes/maybe then the Benelli would be the way to go for $150 more, no?
Of course, for guys that already have the Beretta, maybe it's worth the fiddle-fart to "fix" the gun, or wait/hope/pray that Beretta fixes it on their own in a way that can be easily retrofitted.
Assuming we're talking about an M1/M2, since that's a lot closer in price to the 1301 than the M4, that's the comparison I'll make. Inertia systems can be more finicky with ammo, can be sluggish with cycling (especially when dirty), and can have more reliability issues of you're running a side saddle.
Based on what I've seen first hand and what I've heard from others with a lot more experience than I do, there's a much higher percentage that I would have a cycling issue with a Benelli than having a shell dump issue with the Beretta.
If the shell dump issue is the only real issue preventing the decision toward the 1301, I still fail to see how the risk of accidentally hitting the lever on the 1301 is drastically different than accidentally hitting the mag release on a pistol or carbine. Doing either sets you up with one usable round, but the 1301 can at least be cleared in a reasonable amount of time. With practice, I'm betting it can be cleared close to as fast as someone can perform a reload (which, for HD, how many people carry a reload)?
Is that a hyperbolic comparison? A little, but hopefully it helps get the point across that the one downfall of the 1301 can happen in a worst case scenario, but any gun can put you in a terrible position in a worst case scenario. Once you understand the manual of arms and practice even a little, the odds of hitting the lever at the wrong time is very very low.
Owner of Aridus Industries. Creator of the Q-DC, CROM, and other fun shotgun stuff.
I was going to ignore this, but in case there are people here who are new to guns, I don't want them to get the wrong impression.
I won't do much to address the reliability comparison between the M2 and the 1301, because afaik, the 1301 has never really been tested. The M2 has served in military and law enforcement roles for a long time. It is not a perfect design, but when intelligently handled, it works well. No doubt, it has some flaws.
As far as the pistol magazine release comparison to the 1301 however, that is just not an accurate understanding of how and why these weapons are used. Pistols are carried in holsters. Proper holsters protect the gun from accidental abuse. A long gun, like the 1301, is carried on a sling. By its very nature, the gun is unprotected and susceptible to being knocked about. Levers and buttons get activated all the time under these circumstances.
When a pistol is drawn, it is held in one or two hands, and many of its controls are pretty well protected by the shooter's hands and arms. I have never seen a pistol release its magazine by accident under these circumstances. Can a poorly trained shooter hit the mag release when they don't want to? Sure, but several factors have to come into play for that to happen. In addition, hitting the mag release does not jam the gun up. You may or may not be able to effectively deal with the problem that you have created, but the gun is not, by design, jammed up.
Conversely, when holding a long gun in an appropriate 2 handed position, many of the controls are exposed, and as you do things with the gun, it is much more possible to hit outboard controls than on a pistol. I have seen this happen more than once, both in training and for real. Vehicles, walls, doors, windows and gear seem attracted to people when they have guns out.
But who carries a shotgun by choice today? Maybe none of this applies to you.
Now, if all you do is keep the 1301 in your bedroom for home defense, and treat it like artillery, then you are unlikely to have issues, I suppose. However, why suppose, when you can be sure that your gun of choice is appropriate to the task? There are many vetted long gun choices available these days, why pick something based on features, rather than track record?
As far as features go, I get that many people seem to feel that the 1301 is faster to shoot, has less recoil, and handles better than most other shotguns out there. Ok. How many shotgun fights involve going cyclic on a single target? If it's home defense, who cares that it is slightly lighter than another choice? You shouldn't be traipsing around the house with it normally anyway, and really, if you need to, it won't be for very long. Go to the gym if it's an issue.
People in the gun world will never agree on everything. Some serious dudes have even tried to make Limited guns appropriate for fighting. Wasted a ton of tax-payer money and their own time as well. And for what gains? Slightly faster splits? Slightly greater accuracy?
If you are a gun geek, choose whatever floats your boat. If you are seriously worried about defending yourself, or you need to take the fight to the bad guys, choose what has been proven to work. Let some other guy be the guinea pig with the new stuff.
Last edited by SLG; 05-04-2016 at 02:53 PM. Reason: accuracy
SLG nails it regarding the mag release and the bolt release comparison is concerned.
I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.
I agree. Plus, the comparison shouldn't be to,the magazine release on a pistol or AR but rather the controls on a competing shotgun.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
I would like to point out that my recent comments here are not a slam of any of the folks diligently working for a solution to these ills. On the contrary, I'm pulling for you. If a simple fix is developed, I'll buy a 1301 ASAP. Until then, I'll stick with my old 870Ps (and sometimes an old M1 Super 90).
I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.
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