Beretta 1301 Tactical

[jlw]

Don't disagree.

However, most of the folks here who would use a 1301 Tac only shoot slugs or Flight Control...

I prefer the Flight Control, but there are times when I have not been able to obtain it. Plus, it isn't what the training center provides for classes, which means if I want to shoot FC, it is on my own dime if I attend a class there rather than shooting the governor's ammo. During the last ammo crunch, I was only able to put my hands on some Fiochi ammo when attending the FBI Instructor class.

[GJM]

I used to be more enthusiastic about tight shooting defensive shotgun barrels, and had Hans Vang work his magic on a number of them. Then, the late, great Louis Awerbuck commented to me that the reason we have shotguns is to have spread -- otherwise we can shoot slugs or rifles. Louis used to frequently load his 14 inch 870 with slugs.

I have long since given up trying to remember what buckshot shoots what pattern at what distance. I typically just load buck inside, slugs outside and carry a few rubber bullets for shooting bears in the butt, and shot for harvesting birds.

[JodyH]

Then, the late, great Louis Awerbuck commented to me that the reason we have shotguns is to have spread --

I made a similar argument on this forum a while back.
It didn't go over well.

[NETim]

I leave all that la-dee-da choke work to those fuss budget trap shooters.

[jlw]

I used to be more enthusiastic about tight shooting defensive shotgun barrels, and had Hans Vang work his magic on a number of them. Then, the late, great Louis Awerbuck commented to me that the reason we have shotguns is to have spread -- otherwise we can shoot slugs or rifles. Louis used to frequently load his 14 inch 870 with slugs.

I have long since given up trying to remember what buckshot shoots what pattern at what distance. I typically just load buck inside, slugs outside and carry a few rubber bullets for shooting bears in the butt, and shot for harvesting birds.

Spread is fine until you have pellets not hitting in the torso at beyond a car length. I know how to do a slug exchange, but sometimes time isn't there to do it. If I can't keep all the pellets on target at 25 yards, I consider it useless for my desired uses. Your mileage may vary, and that's cool.

[GJM]

Spread is fine until you have pellets not hitting in the torso at beyond a car length. I know how to do a slug exchange, but sometimes time isn't there to do it. If I can't keep all the pellets on target at 25 yards, I consider it useless for my desired uses. Your mileage may vary, and that's cool.

I agree with your thinking, it is just my solution is different -- a tube full of slugs.

[Dagga Boy]

You would be just shocked at how fast a 7 yard problem can turn into a 47 yard problem, and a select slug drill is not an option. Experience is each of our individuals best teacher, which is why I like a tight shooting shotgun.

[GJM]

You would be just shocked at how fast a 7 yard problem can turn into a 47 yard problem, and a select slug drill is not an option. Experience is each of our individuals best teacher, which is why I like a tight shooting shotgun.

Darryl, you may remember this case, as it has been a while, but I believe it was in your general area. I remember one of Louis Awerbuck, Randy Cain or Bill Jeans, and I think it was Bill Jeans/Morrigan Consulting, with a case study in their course materials about a LE shotgun shooting. Thought it was in So Cal, and the officer fired his shotgun with buck at a bad guy, hit him but a stray pellet hit an innocent or other officer and killed them, 50 yards or so down range of the perp.

I figure if I am going to own every projectile, it is a lot easier to own one Brenneke slug than a few handfuls of buck. Awerbuck, Cain and Jeans have all told me their personal choice for their default load in their shotgun is the slug. Of course I don't make department rules, and understand some are stuck with buck as their default load.

Over the years, I have taken a bunch of shotgun classes with instructors including Clint Smith, Randy Cain, Louis Awerbuck, Bill Jeans, plus one memorable class that Awerbuck, Cain and Steve Slawson taught during a snowy November week at Gunsite. My classmates there included Hans Vang, Irv Stone, Wayne Novak and a bunch more characters. I cruised through the shoot off, and beat myself against Wayne Novak in the final bout, when I outran my headlights and nicked a hostage popper. Those were the days.

[jlw]

I took a 40 hour shotgun instructor course from a guy whose next gig was being the primary firearms instructor for the Secret Service Counter Assault Teams (the guys who immediately respond to any attack on the POTUS). As he has never taught open enrollment classes, nobody on the forums has ever heard of him.

One of his favorite sayings was "It's the fastest eight rounds you'll ever fire." referencing 00-buck.

He was a firm believer in a tight buckshot pattern.

I also recently attended a class in which one of the students was a forensic pathologist for a state crime lab. He made the observation that buck is typically retained in a body whereas slugs almost always penetrate completely.

---

I went on a warrant last week. We had to cross a large yard to approach a two story house. I was carrying an 870. The threat distance was easily reachable with a tight shooting buckshot pattern, but it would not have been with a pattern no good beyond a car length, and swapping back and forth between slugs and buck just didn't seem feasible nor practical.

If my number one concern was critters, I could see the tube full of slugs, but moving through a house with a team hunting two legged varmints, a tight buck pattern just seems like a more preferable option.

---

On the subject of 1301s, I didn't move fast enough on that quoted $879 price. Circumstances on that took an odd twist.

[GJM]

I want a 1301 Tactical without the big OEM iron sights, or a regular 1301 cut down to 18.25 inches for handiness.

Thoughts on which way to go?