"Serious Use" Shotguns and Chokes

[Unobtanium]

I bought the pistol grip stock LE only version from a dealer about a month ago. Has all the Gen 2 features minus the barrel with interchangeable chokes. When I asked Beretta customer service why their website listed the barrel had a choke of OCHP, they said the LE version only comes in cylinder bore. They said their website had OCHP listed as a choke because that's the diameter bore they make the barrel as opposed to the Mobilchoke diameter. I didn't quite understand the point seeing as the LE version has Gen 2 everything except the barrel and it's listed on their site with a choke.

Serious use shotguns shouldn't have chokes.

[e_stern]

Serious use shotguns shouldn't have chokes.

That is the prevailing opinion, although I personally strongly disagree with it.

[Unobtanium]

That is the prevailing opinion, although I personally strongly disagree with it.

Why?

Since I asked you, here is my "why"


-I use Flite Control buckshot. It does terrible out of ANY choke. There is no buckshot that holds a tighter pattern no-matter what fancy choke you use, than Flite Control through a CYL bore. If I want more spread, say, for in my house only, I'll use non FC buckshot.
-I also use slugs. Slugs shoot just fine out of a CYL bore.
-Chokes can and do come loose, and can and do become secondary projectiles.
-Even when chokes don't come loose, they will accrue fouling faster and degrade slug accuracy and buckshot patterns faster than a straight-wall bore. Especially because they are near the muzzle where velocity is highest.
-Choke tubes can become frozen in the gun if you're lazy or ignorant.
-Changing chokes can and will change your POI, so to argue the versatility line, you need to accept re-zeroing every time you change a choke, for optimal performance, and isn't a choke about optimal performance for a certain load?
-Gamers who only shoot 3G birdshot have a legit need for a choke, usually LM.

[TCinVA]

-I use Flite Control buckshot. It does terrible out of ANY choke. There is no buckshot that holds a tighter pattern no-matter what fancy choke you use, than Flite Control through a CYL bore. If I want more spread, say, for in my house only, I'll use non FC buckshot.

Everybody doesn't use FFC, though. Especially in LE. Some people/organizations prefer to use more traditionally wadded buckshot in concert with a choke that yields a better pattern than cylinder bore.

-I also use slugs. Slugs shoot just fine out of a CYL bore.

True...they work pretty good out of improved cylinder and modified, too. At least in my guns.

-Chokes can and do come loose, and can and do become secondary projectiles.
-Even when chokes don't come loose, they will accrue fouling faster and degrade slug accuracy and buckshot patterns faster than a straight-wall bore. Especially because they are near the muzzle where velocity is highest.
-Choke tubes can become frozen in the gun if you're lazy or ignorant.

All maintenance issues. Valid maintenance issues, but choices are usually about picking downsides. Lots of people would prefer to have those potential maintenance issues if they can get better accountability for their patterns.

-Changing chokes can and will change your POI, so to argue the versatility line, you need to accept re-zeroing every time you change a choke, for optimal performance, and isn't a choke about optimal performance for a certain load?

That depends on your gun. On the Wingmaster I had Wilson cut for Remchokes, I can change from the modified that's in the gun to a cylinder choke without impact to how my buckshot shoots.

That being said I expect most people will put a choke in there and leave it alone. They just want something a little bit better for their use than cylinder bore and the easiest way to accomplish that is with screw-in chokes.

[Unobtanium]

Everybody doesn't use FFC, though. Especially in LE. Some people/organizations prefer to use more traditionally wadded buckshot in concert with a choke that yields a better pattern than cylinder bore.



True...they work pretty good out of improved cylinder and modified, too. At least in my guns.



All maintenance issues. Valid maintenance issues, but choices are usually about picking downsides. Lots of people would prefer to have those potential maintenance issues if they can get better accountability for their patterns.



That depends on your gun. On the Wingmaster I had Wilson cut for Remchokes, I can change from the modified that's in the gun to a cylinder choke without impact to how my buckshot shoots.

That being said I expect most people will put a choke in there and leave it alone. They just want something a little bit better for their use than cylinder bore and the easiest way to accomplish that is with screw-in chokes.

While I respect your opinion, I disagree. Its nice that Beretta sells a gun that meets the needs of either camp.

[e_stern]

Tim essentially put everything I'd say to words already.

I can say from having dealt with a number of agencies firsthand already re: 1301, many of them do not run FC. Without FC you will see a significant improvement in patterning with a tighter choke.

[Unobtanium]

Tim essentially put everything I'd say to words already.

I can say from having dealt with a number of agencies firsthand already re: 1301, many of them do not run FC. Without FC you will see a significant improvement in patterning with a tighter choke.

I understand and agree. How many people in this thread are their agencies purchasing contact vs. "bought this gun for myself" though? I'd tend to think if you're the purchasing agent, you might could steer the buckshot train as well. If you "bought it for yourself"...buy FC. So I'm failing to see the argument, here, from an end-user standpoint. If championing "other people" though, maybe the LE dept will just buy CIV guns? Problem solved.

[Cory]

I've never seen chokes as a down side. I'm sure they could fly off but I've never seen it. Even average attention to maintence seems to take care of preventing catastrophe.

I honestly think the 1301T could serve as a "social" gun and probably a turkey gun as well now that it has chokes.

-Cory

[4gallonbucket]

I've never seen chokes as a down side. I'm sure they could fly off but I've never seen it. Even average attention to maintence seems to take care of preventing catastrophe.

I honestly think the 1301T could serve as a "social" gun and probably a turkey gun as well now that it has chokes.

-Cory

EXACTLY. I think this would make a great turkey gun. I want to see one with a rattle can camo job.


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[Lester Polfus]

That is the prevailing opinion, although I personally strongly disagree with it.

I both agree and disagree with it.

If by "serious use" we mean a shotgun that will be issued in a military or LE setting, ride around in a patrol car/HUMVEE, and be handled by people who could break a blacksmith anvil after first getting it pregnant, then the shotgun should have a fixed choke.

My own personal shotgun? It has interchangeable chokes. Of all the personal firearms I've owned since I hung up the super suit, it has come the closest to seeing "serious use" but the guy decided to leave.

While I certainly prefer to use Flight Control buckshot, I've gotten near equivalent patterns out of Remington Express by changing the choke in the gun.