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Thread: Beretta 1301 Tactical

  1. #4031
    Likes Marmite Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Beretta 1301 Tactical

    1301 was a constant companion in SE Alaska. It got wet and dirty because there was quite a bit of rain and bushwhacking.



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  2. #4032
    Member Phaedrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearFondler View Post
    Considering they're still selling one to every Aridus customer it's probably really not worth the expense.
    Maybe. But it looks like for every Aridus customer there are ten 1301 owners that would love be an Aridus customer if only they could keep up with demand. I decided to buy my 1301 about eight months before I was actually able to find one, and since I was planning on getting the shotgun I signed up for alerts with Aridus about a year ago. A year! I could be wrong but I would guess that there are hundreds of people at least waiting on availability of parts. If Magpul actually made a stock to fit the 1301 I'd have bought it long ago and so would dozens/hundreds of other 1301 owners. The pool of Beretta 1301 owners > pool of Aridus customers.
    I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned. - Richard Feynman
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  3. #4033
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    Maybe. But it looks like for every Aridus customer there are ten 1301 owners that would love be an Aridus customer if only they could keep up with demand. I decided to buy my 1301 about eight months before I was actually able to find one, and since I was planning on getting the shotgun I signed up for alerts with Aridus about a year ago. A year! I could be wrong but I would guess that there are hundreds of people at least waiting on availability of parts. If Magpul actually made a stock to fit the 1301 I'd have bought it long ago and so would dozens/hundreds of other 1301 owners. The pool of Beretta 1301 owners > pool of Aridus customers.
    It sounds like someone at Beretta needs to sit down with someone at Magpul and say “We want to use your stock on our shotgun”

  4. #4034
    Member Phaedrus's Avatar
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    I'll confess I don't totally understand Magpul's business model. My guess is that 95% of their products revolve around the AR, the Glock, the 870 and the 500/590 shotguns. The Benelli M4 has been one of the premier fighting shotguns for decades and Magpul doesn't support it at all so I guess it's not surprising that they don't support the 1301 T. I have no background in plastics so I have no idea how much work it is to change the molds to make different products. Beyond the physical retooling I get it- there's SKUs, issues with inventory, etc. They have a very small core of weapons that they make accessories for and I suppose it's smart to know your market and to serve it well.

    But at the risk of sounding like a dummy it doesn't seem like it would be a huge production to make runs of other products especially in the era of 3D printing. Of course, there's a reason I'm a chef and not the CEO of a tactical product company. Couldn't some smart guys license the stock and 3D print 'em in small runs to folks like us? Or even create their own line of 1301 products? The fact that they don't probably means there's no market (because we all know that markets are perfect and infallible!). It would be incredible to be able to buy a bolt-on US-made stock and especially fore end!
    I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned. - Richard Feynman
    When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist.- Archbishop Helder Câmara

  5. #4035
    Member Phaedrus's Avatar
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    BTW, I'm not dragging Aridus. It's just frustration on my part. Obviously they've "built the better mousetrap" and just can't keep up given the pandemic, supply shortages, etc. I'm sure if they could build twice as many they'd sell 'em all and make even more, so it's not like they're not trying. And they're one of the only companies doing anything for the 1301 so I'm glad they're doing what they're doing.🙏
    I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned. - Richard Feynman
    When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist.- Archbishop Helder Câmara

  6. #4036
    Old man yelling at cloud OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    But at the risk of sounding like a dummy it doesn't seem like it would be a huge production to make runs of other products especially in the era of 3D printing.
    3D printing is like 2D printing.

    Compare what you can get out of a color 2D printer, and what it costs per page, and what a printer that will actually do quality in the volume of an office environment (not production) costs in the first place, to just buying a book on Amazon that's printed by the thousands in a real factory.

    The benefit is if you want one or 5 or 20 copies of something, right now, and you're OK if the colors aren't quite perfect and it's a little bit irregular and there's a white border around the edge that you'll have to trim off.

    Same result for 3D printing versus an actual tooled part using standard production methods in a real factory.

    As someone with a bit of manufacturing experience, I don't see this changing, ever.
    .
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    Not another dime.

  7. #4037
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    I have no background in plastics so I have no idea how much work it is to change the molds to make different products. Beyond the physical retooling I get it- there's SKUs, issues with inventory, etc.
    Another thing is the mold has to be designed (mostly already done) then bought, at a significant cost. Then it has to take a turn on a valuable molding machine. Once all that is done a Magpul stock probably costs $5 to make.

    But I agree, they seem to make some obscure stuff that seems like it would be low volume. They build something for the 870 and 500, but both of those have had millions made over the span of decades, as geeked up as we are about the 1301 they probably are not actually importing all that many.



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  8. #4038
    Member Kosuke Kutsunugi's Avatar
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    reloading recipe for 1301

    I have tried several reload recipes at 50m

    it based on remington rxp 32g made by nippo industry.

    gun:1301 comp 24inch
    choke:cylinder extended
    bullet:savorg paradox
    wad:russian special wad
    powder:remington rxp's powder 18.6gn
    cap:remington rxp's cap
    climp:roll
    hull:federal gold medal 12ga 24g
    sight:ventrib

    Name:  D2DD9C24-96CD-4147-835C-0C401F53031A.jpg
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    gun:1301 comp 24inch
    choke:cylinder extended
    bullet:savorg paradox
    wad:russian special wad
    powder:hogdon long shot 27gr
    cap:remington rxp's cap
    climp:roll
    hull:federal gold medal 12ga 24g
    sight:ventrib

    Name:  17B054DD-E508-474E-BBA4-13FEB30ADB82.jpg
Views: 399
Size:  62.9 KB

    If i put the optics on the gun, it might be more accurate.

  9. #4039
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    The ideal solution would be for Magpul to license the Aridus stock adapter. Everybody gets a piece of the cheese that way. But, that would involve Magpul focusing more on actual useful products instead of T-shirts and man bun wraps.
    Ken

    BBI: ...”you better not forget the safe word because shit's about to get weird”...
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  10. #4040
    At the end of the day, the shogun market is pretty small compared to the wider firearms industry, and the majority of the shotgun market in the US is the pump action platforms.

    I have some experience in plastic product and 3D printing, so quick top of the head estimating: a tool for a Magpul SGA style stock for a 1301 probably costs somewhere in the ballpark of $100-120K (given the size, multiple piece nature, and material they're shooting in the tool). That's assuming their spacers are going to be compatible, if not, add another 15-20k for that set. Now that's raw tooling cost, not counting the approx year+ of development and testing time for however many engineers they assign to such a program, and any prototyping and testing. Total program cost to company is probably ballpark 1.5 years of development resources tied up and $350K cost, and that's being conservative. Now the problem isn't so much can they eventually make that money back, because sure they eventually could, the issue is how long will it take to recoup that investment, and is there a different, more profitable program that can be run instead. So we come back to market size, and how shotguns will continue to be the low man on the totem pole for that kind of support until there's a wider market shift.

    Now, for 3D printing: the right kind of printer you'd want for a shotgun stock is a 6-7 figure piece of equipment. Outsource it, and you're looking at approx $800-900 raw cost per set of something like the SGA. Add even a lousy retail markup, and you're still pushing a whole other 1301 in customer cost just for a stock. And that's ignoring that the 3D printed polymer is nowhere near as durable as the long glass strand polymers the molded stuff uses.

    Guys like Adam at Aridus, and Ernest and his team at LTT are really incredible for the support and high quality product they make for this relatively niche stuff. Without their mods, I doubt anyone would even be voicing 'where's Magul?', and their work will likely be the basis for any business case study if it ever does happen.

    Until then, having to hunt for the stuff from Aridus isn't the most convenient thing in the age of Amazon, but its certainly better than the alternative. Plus at the end of the day its a solid, small shop, American made, machined component, and I'm a proud sucker for that sort of thing; I think it adds a 'cool factor' you just don't get with mass market stuff like Magpul.

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