Beretta 1301 Tactical

[Balisong]

Took my 870 to the range today for the first time in a long while . After shooting the 1301 exclusively for the last year, today I learned that I just can't go back to a pump. The pumps will stay in the safe.

I'm right there with you. I just see absolutely no advantage to a pump compared to a BerettaNelli semiautomatic. Especially considering the current reputations of Remington and Mossberg quality control. Plus gaining the advantage of easier to shoot one handed if need be, which seems like a positive to me taking into account the supposed frequency of arm/hand injuries in gun fights.

Seems like someone else beat me to the ghost load video. Yes, you can. Would have to test your ammo for certainty. The only caveat and why I have no interest in ghost loading, is the need to have a round in the chamber:

https://youtu.be/8FWaJbxGI1g

Thank you for getting back to us on this, I appreciate it. Unfortunately that's a deal breaker for me as I want my HD gun with empty chamber, loaded magazine, and shell ghost loaded.

[Balisong]

I just watched the ghost loading video, and I did not see any indication why you would NEED to have one in the chamber? Can't you just skip that step?

[Flyboytim]

I just watched the ghost loading video, and I did not see any indication why you would NEED to have one in the chamber? Can't you just skip that step?

Yes Balisong, I beg your pardon. You certainly can skip that step and just load one on top of the lifter, and rack the bolt to chamber it when needed. That would give you 8 in the gun with the 2 round extension. 🤓👍

[GearFondler]

I just watched the ghost loading video, and I did not see any indication why you would NEED to have one in the chamber? Can't you just skip that step?

Yes Balisong, I beg your pardon. You certainly can skip that step and just load one on top of the lifter, and rack the bolt to chamber it when needed. That would give you 8 in the gun with the 2 round extension. [emoji851][emoji106]

I don't have that fancy new lifter, but yeah, that's how I keep mine loaded... 7 in the tube, one on the lifter, and the chamber empty. Rack it to start the party.

[rob_s]

I'm right there with you. I just see absolutely no advantage to a pump compared to a BerettaNelli semiautomatic. Especially considering the current reputations of Remington and Mossberg quality control. Plus gaining the advantage of easier to shoot one handed if need be, which seems like a positive to me taking into account the supposed frequency of arm/hand injuries in gun fights.

As someone who Currently *has* a pump but *wants* a 1301, I can perhaps shed some light, if the question is legit...

The main issue is cost. And there are several facets to that larger issue.

1. Right up front, a new 1301 is $1,200 while a new 870 is what, $500?
2. I already have the pump, set up the way I want it, so it’s effectively free”
3. If you don’t want “new”, and I didn’t, I paid something like $300 for my police turn in and got, imo, a better gun for less money
4. If you’re not going to shoot it much (and I, like I bet a lot of shotgun buyers, have no interest in shooting it much) then the sunk cost spread becomes even worse ($300 sitting in the safe or $1,200?)
5. For many people, self included, the thing is a woobie at best to begin with, and if my $300 woobie keeps me warm and makes me feel secure, then...

It I did say I want a 1301, right? So why? What *would* make the cost worthwhile after all of that

1. It’s neato
2. It’s seems to be becoming the Glock 19 and Colt 6920 of the shotgun world, so I want one
3. My wife shoots a 390 in sporting clays and would have an easier time figuring out the 1301 than she has with the 870
4. Did I mention it’s neato? And comes in tan (I really want OD but if this is “for the wife” that’s never going to fly, in fact I’ll likely wind up with black )

But given what I consider to be the “realities” of defensive shotgun ownership, I wouldn’t feel one bit bad sticking with my used police 870.

[ssb]

As someone who Currently *has* a pump but *wants* a 1301, I can perhaps shed some light, if the question is legit...

The main issue is cost. And there are several facets to that larger issue.

1. Right up front, a new 1301 is $1,200 while a new 870 is what, $500?
2. I already have the pump, set up the way I want it, so it’s effectively free”
3. If you don’t want “new”, and I didn’t, I paid something like $300 for my police turn in and got, imo, a better gun for less money
4. If you’re not going to shoot it much (and I, like I bet a lot of shotgun buyers, have no interest in shooting it much) then the sunk cost spread becomes even worse ($300 sitting in the safe or $1,200?)
5. For many people, self included, the thing is a woobie at best to begin with, and if my $300 woobie keeps me warm and makes me feel secure, then...

It I did say I want a 1301, right? So why? What *would* make the cost worthwhile after all of that

1. It’s neato
2. It’s seems to be becoming the Glock 19 and Colt 6920 of the shotgun world, so I want one
3. My wife shoots a 390 in sporting clays and would have an easier time figuring out the 1301 than she has with the 870
4. Did I mention it’s neato? And comes in tan (I really want OD but if this is “for the wife” that’s never going to fly, in fact I’ll likely wind up with black )

But given what I consider to be the “realities” of defensive shotgun ownership, I wouldn’t feel one bit bad sticking with my used police 870.

My 1301 is arguably the most “fun” gun I have to shoot, if that matters. It handles like an M1 carbine but launches buckshot, and the recoil isn’t objectionable at all. There’s something to be said for a fast handling gun that makes big, satisfying holes in things.

I think the true benefit of the 1301 is that - if one wants a shotgun for home defense - it really simplifies the shooting process. If you’ve shot one semi-auto, you’ve pretty much shot them all as far as mechanics go. Conversely, a pump action has a lot of user manipulation going on. As somebody who didn’t grow up with a shotgun in their hands (but has been to shotgun classes), it’s certainly possible to screw those manipulations up.

I went with a 1301 after a bad experience with Benelli (ammo sensitive, though looking back also probably technique sensitive) and being unimpressed with my other options in the semi auto field. My 1301 has never failed to cycle the crappiest birdshot I can run through it, and it eats my preferred low recoil buckshot as well. My old Benelli did neither.

[TCinVA]

For serious defensive work pumps have reigned supreme because of how finicky semi-autos are.

The 1301 is the first defensively oriented semi-auto that isn't picky about ammo (The M4 is pretty good, but still pickier), seems to roll out of the factory working from the word "go", and doesn't have reliability that hangs on maintaining hard to get parts. (Mossberg and Remington are both bad about that...buddy of mine has a dead 1100P right now because of it) It just gobbles shells and asks for more.

Most other semi-auto shotguns have required dedication to keep them running if you had anything approaching a regular practice regimen. Pumps didn't. Pump guns would eventually break if you used them hard, but few used them hard enough to make that happen.

So now that we finally have the softer shooting, extremely reliable, extremely durable semi-auto shotgun that is set up beautifully for defensive purpose, why bother with a pump?

For most people a pump will still be less expensive in the initial buy, although with modifications the price gap narrows. In some places semi-auto shotguns are more heavily regulated because semi-auto.

For most people the operation of practically all pump shotguns is sufficiently similar that if you understand how to set one up for a ready condition you understand how to do it with all of them. Semi-autos all have their own little way of doing things that can be massively confusing. I make it as simple as possible but I can still see eyes glazing over when we start getting into magazine cutoff vs. no magazine cutoff, shell release locations, etc.

For me, I do most of my practice and demonstration with the pump gun because the 1301 is too easy. I have more credibility as an instructor if I can stand in front of a group of people and perform with equipment that is fairly basic. My main teaching gun is an 870 express with iron sights because it's very well suited for purpose and everybody can see that there's no magic in the gun itself.

For you? I can't tell you what's best for you. All I can do is help you understand the options, identify your requirements, and then you can use that better understanding to make the right choice for you.

If someone wanted to use the shotgun for sport and defense they would be extremely well served by having a 1301 Competition model for sporting use and a 1301T for dedicated defensive use and that combo would handle literally everything they could hope to do with a scattergun short of shooting sabot slugs at 200 yards. And even then it might do ok at that.

If someone was coming to shotguns brand new with no prior ownership or baggage and had the money, I'd happily set them up that way.

Most aren't coming that way, though. They've bought something or inherited something or had something they bought for squirrels and they're looking to press it into service as a defensive option given the general temperament of society these days. That's usually a pump gun because that's what everybody used to have, that's what gun stores push, that's what untold scores of internet experts have encouraged, and that's actually what some legitimate experts recommend for defense.

Beyond that, it's what some people know. My father is a good example. He spent a lot of years hunting with an 870. The man has literally never fired an AR-15, not even the one I bought him. If he needed a long gun for defense tomorrow I'd hand him my main teaching 870 because it's something he can use easily. I'm seeing that show up in class more in the last 18 months, someone who has a long history with a particular pump gun for sporting use and they're now looking at defensive application. I love those folks because they're easy to teach. They understand the operation of the gun and all I have to do is enhance a few things here or there and they're rock stars.

[GJM]

Running an 870 well requires you to be really good at manipulating the action with your support hand, where running the 1301 well requires you to be good at pressing the trigger.

[rob_s]

Running an 870 well requires you to be really good at manipulating the action with your support hand, where running the 1301 well requires you to be good at pressing the trigger.

I would disagree with that, to some extent.

Working with my wife, who previously had almost no exposure to firearms at all and spending the last year or two infrequently shooting sporting clays, she stays familiar enough with the semi auto to be dangerous... but mostly to herself and others.

She's intimidated by the pump, but the truth is that she knows that if she really needed it all she has to do is pick it up, cycle the action, shoot, cycle the action... and as long as she's not short-stroking it she'll get along fine.

With the semi, yes once it's running all she has to do is "press the trigger" but she's also got to get it prepared to press the trigger. Which means either I'm storing it chamber loaded (which I'm not doing) and she has to just disengage a safety she never otherwise uses, or she has to manipulate the bolt which she's also not terribly proficient at, in spite of shooting clays, and which can be awkward even for marginally experienced people (like myself) and isn't made any easier by the weight and balance of a shotgun (especially one with an extended tube and added shells attached).

[rob_s]

I'm seeing that show up in class more in the last 18 months, someone who has a long history with a particular pump gun for sporting use and they're now looking at defensive application. I love those folks because they're easy to teach. They understand the operation of the gun and all I have to do is enhance a few things here or there and they're rock stars.

Funnily enough, my wife's relative familiarity with her sporting clays gun is what's leading me down this path, so it's similar to what you describe but with a different outcome.

the thing is, those weird little idiosyncrasies you described earlier (why won't the bolt cycle, or the shell drop, or the lifter move, or this other weird thing, o right I gotta press in this little nubbin that doesn't even look like a goddamn button... oh, wait, that did something but not what I wanted it to...) can be intimidating with the semi even for someone that's passably used to using one. My wife can happily load one in the ejection port, press the button, slide one in the gate, call "pull", press the trigger twice, safely get to the next station and repeat. it's when there's an anomalous problem in that sequence that it all goes to hell. And even within that process, it takes her a station or two to "get it" again.