I *Think* I Short Stroked my 590A1?

[SwampDweller]

I have a Vang Comp "Standard" Mossberg 590A1 with a bit over 500 shells through it. A mix of buckshot and birdshot. Up until today I've always relatively slowly and deliberately pumped it and haven't had any issues. Today I wanted to see how it would do if I ran a tube through it as fast as I possibly could to put some stress on the firearm, using 12 Pellet Federal 00 Buck. Up till that point today I'd been shooting light target loads, so it felt different shucking in a heavier buckshot round. During that, I *think* I shot stroked it, and it makes me think about what would've happened if it was during a defensive situation (I keep this as a HD shotgun).

I'm pretty sure I just short stroked it, but thinking back, I'm second guessing myself whether I had gotten a click instead of a bang, or just didn't cycle it all the way. I'm pretty sure I just short stroked it, but is it even possible to get a click instead of a bang from short stroking in a properly built, in-spec Mossberg?

[TCinVA]

The forend doesn't have to move all the way to the rear to recock the hammer. On the Mossberg, any movement of the forend to the rear will cause the trigger to have a "click" in it even if the hammer wasn't cocked.

Usually when people are using a LOP that's too long for them (even with an SGA installed, the LOP is still too long for most people...replace the butt pad with a thinner Kick-Eeez) and they try to go "fast", that's when they short stroke. Which is why I try to focus on running the gun deliberately, not necessarily "fast". Deliberately can be done very quickly indeed and usually ends up being faster than going "fast".

That's because "fast" is usually as fast as you can't.

For competence my goal for clients is a well aimed shot per second.

For proficiency (in Shotgun Skills or day 2 of a two day program) I'll try and get them to two well directed shots per second with a pump.

It's certainly possible to go faster than that, but not particularly useful. I usually only run a pump gun at max speed if I'm trying to figure out if it has any issues in feeding or function. When going as fast as I can move my hands, short stroking is always possible, especially as it's usually a client gun that I'm not used to running.

For training, focus on ensuring an aorta level hit once per second on multiple targets. Then once per 3/4 of a second. Then when that's easy, push for .7, .65, .6, .55...and when you've hit the point where you are reading your sights and making an intelligent shot at that 1/2 second mark with good recoil mitigation there's not a lot of realistic benefit in trying to go faster. 1/4 second splits with a pump gun is certainly possible with a well set up gun, but it's not productive to run a shotgun that way for real.

About 1/2 a second per shot is what I'd consider about maximum desirable fighting speed with a gauge.

[SwampDweller]

The forend doesn't have to move all the way to the rear to recock the hammer. On the Mossberg, any movement of the forend to the rear will cause the trigger to have a "click" in it even if the hammer wasn't cocked.

Usually when people are using a LOP that's too long for them (even with an SGA installed, the LOP is still too long for most people...replace the butt pad with a thinner Kick-Eeez) and they try to go "fast", that's when they short stroke. Which is why I try to focus on running the gun deliberately, not necessarily "fast". Deliberately can be done very quickly indeed and usually ends up being faster than going "fast".

That's because "fast" is usually as fast as you can't.

For competence my goal for clients is a well aimed shot per second.

For proficiency (in Shotgun Skills or day 2 of a two day program) I'll try and get them to two well directed shots per second with a pump.

It's certainly possible to go faster than that, but not particularly useful. I usually only run a pump gun at max speed if I'm trying to figure out if it has any issues in feeding or function. When going as fast as I can move my hands, short stroking is always possible, especially as it's usually a client gun that I'm not used to running.

For training, focus on ensuring an aorta level hit once per second on multiple targets. Then once per 3/4 of a second. Then when that's easy, push for .7, .65, .6, .55...and when you've hit the point where you are reading your sights and making an intelligent shot at that 1/2 second mark with good recoil mitigation there's not a lot of realistic benefit in trying to go faster. 1/4 second splits with a pump gun is certainly possible with a well set up gun, but it's not productive to run a shotgun that way for real.

About 1/2 a second per shot is what I'd consider about maximum desirable fighting speed with a gauge.

Thank you. Thanks to your advice I did indeed set up my 590A1 with the SGA stock, no spacers, and the thinner kick-eez buttpad. For over 500 rounds since I got it, I had never short stroked it, it was only today when I wanted to, as you say see how fast I can go, which showed to be how fast I can't go.

[ricky_bobby]

The forend doesn't have to move all the way to the rear to recock the hammer. On the Mossberg, any movement of the forend to the rear will cause the trigger to have a "click" in it even if the hammer wasn't cocked.

Usually when people are using a LOP that's too long for them (even with an SGA installed, the LOP is still too long for most people...replace the butt pad with a thinner Kick-Eeez) and they try to go "fast", that's when they short stroke. Which is why I try to focus on running the gun deliberately, not necessarily "fast". Deliberately can be done very quickly indeed and usually ends up being faster than going "fast".

Great advice - the 14" LOP most come with out of the box is too long for desirable use - All my wood stocked 12ga's had to be chopped and a new lower profile pad ground to fit in order for me to manipulate comfortably -

As you noted the SGA even without spacers is too long - the Magpul thin buttpad sold for the X22 Hunter stocks or the Kickeez variant will get it down to a reasonable level - 1/2" less LOP makes a big difference

[SwampDweller]

Great advice - the 14" LOP most come with out of the box is too long for desirable use - All my wood stocked 12ga's had to be chopped and a new lower profile pad ground to fit in order for me to manipulate comfortably -

As you noted the SGA even without spacers is too long - the Magpul thin buttpad sold for the X22 Hunter stocks or the Kickeez variant will get it down to a reasonable level - 1/2" less LOP makes a big difference

On my old Remington 870s with factory stocks, short stroking is something I have great difficulty with. The 590 with the SGA stock and thin kick-eez buttpad has helped a lot with that. I did experience one yesterday, but that was more because I was trying to run it as fast as humanly possible rather than normal use.