Agreed. Knowing when not to use a tourniquet is equally as important.Originally Posted by TGS
Agreed. Knowing when not to use a tourniquet is equally as important.
In attending or instructing... Falls, exertion injuries (sprains, strains), heat or cold exposure, dehydration, diabetic issues, small cuts and abrasions. When shooting steel, the occasional fragment return. No GSWs, knock on wood. A partner instructor had a student ND into his leg on a remote range.
Your normal outdoor-activity type injuries are far more common, along with any inherent medical conditions the shooter brings to the line.
Misspelling.
Yeah I can agree that packing a through and through and applying a dressing/pressure dressing wouldn't be a bad idea/better way to go with a good trauma kit/IFAK. However, there is significant data available supporting the put a tourniquet on it theroy as well. Especially if you may not be a medic, or have received training in ID'ing if the bleed is starting to clot or not, etc. A tourniquet is an easy/quick fix for the extremity GSW, that doesn't take a lot of training or skill. So I do think its a good option and method for that specific type of trauma.
Not arguing the issue, just presenting in a context of a person without any special training, treating an extremity GSW long enough for the medics to show up, etc.
I had to sit through a one-day first aid course this year and the use of a tourniquet was mentioned. It's not rocket surgery....
- It's not the odds, it's the stakes.
- If you aren't dry practicing every week, you're not serious.....
- "Tache-Psyche Effect - a polite way of saying 'You suck.' " - GG
You're stealing my thunder, bro.
That is basically what I was stepping in. While TCCC is contextually relevant given the increased probability of a GSW in a course, I have a hard time equating it as a million times more relevant than general medical training. Our demographic is far more likely to need a cath lab than a trauma center.
TCCC courses are great. They're very focused and the tradecraft is usually at a very high level. However don't think an NAEMT course like RoyGBiv hosted is not going to teach you what you need to know. In addition, not everything in a TCCC course is 100% relevant to us, either. Unless you're infantry or a tactical medic in a stack, you don't really need to learn care-across-the-barrier or how keeping up the fight is the best form of first aid....and those are the two biggest things that differentiate TCCC from everything else.
If you're really that interested in being top-notch on this stuff, the best way of learning is doing. Even just going for a ride-along as an observer with an urban EMS agency will do you wonders, because I'm convinced that GSW's are placed on some sort of a pedestal by most people which causes anxiousness because you've simply never seen one before. Personally, I don't get the allure that many people have with GSW's. In my experience, all they do is clog the entrance to the hospital with gang members and their larvae. The exciting stuff is high speed car wrecks, and the truly scary clinical decisions where you need to be on your game is with general medical cases. A person on anti-coagulants with a GI bleed isn't a very interesting patient...until they crash unexpectedly.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
Here in VA I always worry more about a heat or diabetic related injury than an actual GSW.
I think this has been covered before, but I cannot recommend taking a Wilderness First Aid class enough. The assessment skills you'll get are a great foundation. I know the RC has included TQ use in their WFA course but SOLO has not as of yet, I recerted through SOLO in March.
I took the WFR in 2009 when I decided to become a basic skills instructor and upgraded to a WEMT-B later that summer. I also took a Trauma/GSW class from Doc K (did he teach at the Tac Conference this year?) and he along with Doc Mike did a great 2day class on this. This class also emphasized assessment of the victim. My understanding talking with him earlier this year is that he has his own thing now and is game to teach a class. Any interest from the NOVA/RVA crowd, hit me via PM. I can probably host in the RVA area.
FYI Georgia / Tennessee area folks - Kerry will be in the area twice in January 2014. 1/4-5 he's in Atlanta, and 1/25-26 he'll be in Tennessee.
I'll be attending the Atlanta class. I've been wanting to get in to one of his courses for a while. It'll probably be my first step though, I've also been wanting to do some other basic medical so I'm going to look in to the Wilderness First Aid for later in the spring.
Full disclosure: I am a freelance professional photographer/cinematographer for the firearms and defense industry, among others.
Good on you dude. You will get more than your moneys worth. Jeff Franz (Aesir Training) is working out scheduling to host a live fire course in NC for spring 2014.
I find myself agreeing with 100% of anything you keep posting in this thread. Couldn't have said it better.You're stealing my thunder, bro.
That is basically what I was stepping in. While TCCC is contextually relevant given the increased probability of a GSW in a course, I have a hard time equating it as a million times more relevant than general medical training. Our demographic is far more likely to need a cath lab than a trauma center.
TCCC courses are great. They're very focused and the tradecraft is usually at a very high level. However don't think an NAEMT course like RoyGBiv hosted is not going to teach you what you need to know. In addition, not everything in a TCCC course is 100% relevant to us, either. Unless you're infantry or a tactical medic in a stack, you don't really need to learn care-across-the-barrier or how keeping up the fight is the best form of first aid....and those are the two biggest things that differentiate TCCC from everything else.
If you're really that interested in being top-notch on this stuff, the best way of learning is doing. Even just going for a ride-along as an observer with an urban EMS agency will do you wonders, because I'm convinced that GSW's are placed on some sort of a pedestal by most people which causes anxiousness because you've simply never seen one before. Personally, I don't get the allure that many people have with GSW's. In my experience, all they do is clog the entrance to the hospital with gang members and their larvae. The exciting stuff is high speed car wrecks, and the truly scary clinical decisions where you need to be on your game is with general medical cases. A person on anti-coagulants with a GI bleed isn't a very interesting patient...until they crash unexpectedly.
Fairfax Rod and Gun Club IDPA members attended a one-day GSW, CPR, AED, Trauma-oriented Training which they all raved about. (I had a schedule conflict.) It was taught by Baltimore County Fire and Medical Training, and specifically Scott Goldstein. http://www.bcfmt.com/ You get your CPR and AED card as well. They also included some bloodborne pathogen content for your own protection as a provider. They used a dummy with fake blood for teaching purposes. (But that wouldn't stop them from ordering barbeque.)
It was so popular that they have scheduled another one in January at Fairfax Rod and Gun Club. Me and Bill at Anne Arundel Fish and Game are hosting one in Annapolis, MD and likely to be Sun, Dec 8. If anyone is interested, please PM me, but there are limited slots. Also, you can just email BCFMT at training@bcfmt.com and Scott will respond (pun intended.). Typically 8-12 in a class, $75 for the day, materials included.
Ever since I took Todd's AFHF class, I have been wanting to take a GSW first aid class...finally getting it done. But like shooting, I am sure it will require practice and continued learning.
CC
That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state;
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