Karambit Style Knives

[Dagga Boy]

I am a big Karambit fan, but I have also been training with Steve Tarani since the late 90's. I dislike Pikal knives (not blade in, just the purpose built knives), so like a lot of things this stuff is personal. The key is the training. If you aren't willing to put the time in with any of these things, you are just another dude with a piano who can't play. While I don't like Pikal knives myself, I respect the guys who have actually trained with those who know how to run them like Craig Douglas. I look at guys with specialty edged weapons and no training with a bit of a humor. The key with a lot of people who make Karambits is what their training background is like? Do they know where the brakes go, do they understand the geometry and fit? If you want it because you want it, great....free country. I would recommend training, as Karambits in the hands of novices with no training are very likely to bite you. I spent six months with a custom trainer before I got the matching live blade, and have been very blessed to have not cut myself........the center consul of my truck was not so lucky, and I now use the trainer in the car as well.

I just hosted Steve Tarani in Houston last weekend and we spent a few hours on the Karambit. It is an eye opener for most folks, and this class was no different from the many classes I have hosted Steve for. People "get it" when they see it used correctly. I would imagine it is the same for those who get Pikal training from Craig or other dedicated practitioners.

As for speed.......I am pretty fast with a folding Karambit on the deployment side, and that is with a standard one. THe Emerson waved models are even faster, so that is a non-issue for me.

[SeriousStudent]

If you want to get a trainer, I've found some very useful plastic ones on eBay that replicate the fixed blades. I forgot to mention that.

[JHC]

Interesting design. I am not sure karambit spinning is going to be as practical in a fight to the death in America vs a saber grip and then rip and keep ripping; versus say in a Filipino knife duel. I have a bit of training in Kali&Escrima I compare with it. Watching the choreography of some of the karambit training reminds me of the early UFC when complex Asian martial art moves got crushed by straight rights.

I like the idea of the design and picked up one of the Bladetech/5.11 folders at the Atlanta Blade Show back when they first came out. Even in most crude and intuitive application I can see how someone could defend themselves pretty well with one insofar as breaking away from a violent assault that justified its use.

[Duces Tecum]

Thanks. Don't all encounters require the defender to be close though when using a knife?

In most styles there are (typically) three engagement distances: extended (the tip of your blade barely reaches the back of the aggrressor's knife hand; mid (at arm's length, your extended fingers can touch the other fellow's elbow), and close (the distance between you and him approximates the length of your humerus). Clearly, these are optimum measurements and the distances overlap somewhat.

Different schools focus on different distances. Schools emphasizing the karambit tend to concentrate on the "close" range. That's not to say the karambit is unusable at extended range, but that's probably not it's happy place. Other knife arts focus on mid or extended ranges. They may have close range techniques, but they're designed to operate best when there's more distance between players.

Selecting a knife art requires some thought: primarily, at what distance do you most comfortably fight? A couple of years ago I discovered a secondary filter that I'd never considered previously. After the fact, it seemed obvious, but it was revelatory at the time. The Marines have a unit of combative instructors at Camp Pendleton, and I was asked to introduce them to a certain type knife fighting. There was sparring towards the end of the class and the instructors who used what they'd learned that day did, I thought, rather well. Nonetheless, the senior Marine instructors weren't impressed.

It was a three hour drive home, giving plenty of time to reflect on what happened. Eventually, it became clear: the (new) approach did not account for either person wearing body armor. Their "regulation" knife techniques were predicated on the Good Guy being armored. That made a huge difference. When you're selecting a knife art, distance is still, I think, the prime filter. But the most surprising secondary considerations can appear.

[Dagga Boy]

Interesting design. I am not sure karambit spinning is going to be as practical in a fight to the death in America vs a saber grip and then rip and keep ripping; versus say in a Filipino knife duel. I have a bit of training in Kali&Escrima I compare with it. Watching the choreography of some of the karambit training reminds me of the early UFC when complex Asian martial art moves got crushed by straight rights.

I like the idea of the design and picked up one of the Bladetech/5.11 folders at the Atlanta Blade Show back when they first came out. Even in most crude and intuitive application I can see how someone could defend themselves pretty well with one insofar as breaking away from a violent assault that justified its use.

Most stuff you see on video from anything is "choreographed". Anyone who has watched Tarani do a live full speed non choreographed demo will attest that a straight right will get your ass handed to you in a hurry. The "spinning" is simply doing something that the Karambit can do that other knives cannot-it can make multiple cuts on the same strike. I can also "push and hack" in retracted, and "pull with extended reach" in extended. I have a pretty well set of very basics things I do with a Karambit that simply enhance my normal defensive tactics. A punch with a retracted karambit is much more effective than a simple punch. A block is enhanced, counters to BJJ holds are enhanced with a tool, and I can use it with a firearm in my hand as well. Another benefit is that disarming them both on purpose or by accident is nearly impossible. I also like that I can use my aluminum trainer as a less lethal control tool with all of the same techniques used with the live blade. These are all plusses for me. I have dedicated the training time and like the system. Its not an end all be all, but I like it as an enhancement of my primary martial art, which is firearms use.

[Mitchell, Esq.]

There is a fighting style, I believe Indonesian based, taught by Steve Tarani (http://www.karambit.com/about-steve-tarani/) that uses the karambit. Most (but not all) of the techniques require the defender to be unpleasantly close to the attacker. If your nature draws you in that direction, Steve has a sterling reputation and his Art is fully functional.

Unpleasantly close?

I was unaware of any fighting style except lawsuits, drone strikes or sniping that permitted you to be able to inflict injury on other people without being in retaliatory distance.

Everything revolving around the use of a knife in personal defense is unpleasant, and close.

Knife usage in personal defense is more likely to look like a monkey with a sharp stick than FMA.

[JHC]

Most stuff you see on video from anything is "choreographed". Anyone who has watched Tarani do a live full speed non choreographed demo will attest that a straight right will get your ass handed to you in a hurry. The "spinning" is simply doing something that the Karambit can do that other knives cannot-it can make multiple cuts on the same strike. I can also "push and hack" in retracted, and "pull with extended reach" in extended. I have a pretty well set of very basics things I do with a Karambit that simply enhance my normal defensive tactics. A punch with a retracted karambit is much more effective than a simple punch. A block is enhanced, counters to BJJ holds are enhanced with a tool, and I can use it with a firearm in my hand as well. Another benefit is that disarming them both on purpose or by accident is nearly impossible. I also like that I can use my aluminum trainer as a less lethal control tool with all of the same techniques used with the live blade. These are all plusses for me. I have dedicated the training time and like the system. Its not an end all be all, but I like it as an enhancement of my primary martial art, which is firearms use.

Cool. Some of the vids were of Tarani but they were not live full but training in the indigenous garb. My straight right analogy was not in the context of a counter to a knife.

Thanks!

[Dagga Boy]

I've trained with Steve for a lot of years, and I have done enough full speed demos as the "Meat Puppet" that I can assure you that the only way I ever want to deal with Steve in any kind of fight is to be "dialing more elevation" on my sniper rifle.

The best video I ever saw of Steve was at a Dog Brothers gathering many years ago when he delivered one of the most impressive destructions of an opponent I have ever seen........like spray and meat coming out of the fencing mask ugly. I have also been stupid enough to have rolled with Steve and to have "tried" various techniques cold and at speed with him, and the reason I stay with him is that his stuff works. The true test has come in actual fights I have been in and some of the "simple" stuff that is the foundation of his teaching has worked on auto-pilot. I was in an altercation last summer involving a live edged weapon deployment that worked out very well for me, and the "Thank You" call was made to Steve for the training.

[WDW]

Are there any credible karambit training DVD's that give good, basic demos that a novice could practice as traveling to attend a course is a non-option right now.

I'm not thinking I will master anything through the tv, but I could practice some basic handling & maneuvering on a dummy.

One thing that has drawn me to the kerambit is the control & manipulation factor you can achieve with the blade profile & grip. I also like the retention factor you get with this knife. I'm going to contact Bark River & see if they'll make me a non lethal training replica of my exact knife.

[Dagga Boy]

You can some times track down the old Karambit Videos from Steve, and he has two books floating around as well.

Steve's stuff is a combination of both Indonesian techniques and Filipino. Others out there use different techniques, and I don't know enough about others as to what is worthwhile and what isn't.