NoVA KSTG 2013-10-29

[cclaxton]

Woah, crazy! (Absence of the TLG and JV duly noted.) I actually went home thinking I'd like to someday get through a match without incurring a penalty of some sort.

Vihn, Great job!

I am just happy about Stage 2: I beat everybody...even Josh.
I realized I was just point-shooting on STage 1, which worked for the last target but didn't on the first one. I didn't need the flashlight for stages 1 and 3, but I wanted to get practice with my new Zenix PD22...and I realized that I need a lot more practice!

Cody

[Kyle Reese]

Thank you to everyone for coming out and making this a great match!

[cclaxton]

This was my first KSTG match, and I have to say that I probably won't be shooting it again. $25 for three stages, 35 or so rounds, and 70 seconds of shooting is pretty ridiculous. I appreciate that people are competing to become more proficient, but that COF was ridiculously easy. The only thing that KSTG has going for it over IDPA is a hot range, and I would love to see that carried over to the rest of the shooting world. Shooters can trash talk LEOs shooting ability all day (and I concur on most points) but we manage to carry loaded guns without ND'ing on a regular basis. I'm not sure why incredibly competent shooters are so horrified at the thought of a hot range - I get range safety, but USPSA/IDPA take it too far.

I'd rather get slaughtered shooting USPSA limited using an appendix holster and a compact 9mm for the same entry fee; the stages are longer, require more thought, you move further than five meters, and there are a lot more than three stages.

2501: I shoot IDPA and USPSA as well. I enjoy those sports, and I agree there is more value to a $20-25 fee with a 6-10 stage match that takes 3-6 hours. I suspect that a lot of that fee goes to the rental of the NRA range for the event and support staff.

But let me make a case for the KSTG match and why I justify the time/expense:
- There aren't many facilities where you can do low-light/no-light stages in this area unless you are LE and have access to a police/federal range, and even then it's not competition.
- In the winter/cold-months, this is a heated indoor range that makes it more attractive. in the summer, it's air conditioned;
- The match only takes an hour, and I live 10 min drive away (Okay, maybe 30 at rush hour), and it is easy to get in/out and get in some action-pistol practice;
- The KSTG group are pushing the edge in terms of action pistol: Appendix Carry, Push-out refinement, flashlights and knives, and generally great people to discuss the "bleeding edge" of technology and performance (I could not resist that euphemism);
- The KSTG rules challenge me to be more tactical in my shooting, such as muzzle not past cover, higher penalties for non-threats, and smaller targets for head shots;
- $25 is not a lot of moolah considering the cost of driving to Fredericksburg or Peacemaker or Annapolis to shoot their matches, and the considerable time it takes to drive, shoot and eat.

The way I look at the higher fee is: At least $10 is a donation to the NRA Range, and they are great people, and it is the best department of the NRA, IMHO.
Cody

[JV_]

I suspect that a lot of that fee goes to the rental of the NRA range for the event and support staff.

Just to be clear : There's no pay for us, Todd, or anyone else that isn't an NRA Range employee. They charge what they charge and handle the signups. We set it up and run it. We get nothing out of doing the setup and match running, other than the setup staff doesn't pay for the entry fee.

[cclaxton]

Just to be clear : There's no pay for us, Todd, or anyone else that isn't an NRA Range employee. They charge what they charge and handle the signups. We set it up and run it. We get nothing out of doing the setup and match running, other than the setup staff doesn't pay for the entry fee.

JV, Josh, Todd: Thank you all for your service to the sport and action pistol....can't say "Thank You!" enough.

I definitely enjoyed the match...it was perfect timing for me to practice flashlight shooting.

Money isn't everything. I get satisfaction when I SO/MD out of helping people improve their gun-handling...as long as they are safe... *Sometimes* I get satisfaction from knowing I can shoot faster/better...just being honest.

Next year I will bring silver bullets....so have a cage full of live werewolves ready!
Cody

[abu fitna]

I will echo the comments of others in response to the gentleman's criticisms. I understand the limitations of the range space, and think that the staff do a hell of good job setting things up under tight timelines to create innovative and challenging problems.

While most stages are short encounters, (when not holiday themed for fun) the stages generally mimic a wide range of shoot problems that are absolutely things I would need to continue to train against. Sometimes I may debate the relative design of a stage in terms of forcing a specific solution to a problem, but no one can say it is not fair in that all folks have to solve it the same way (or fail) - and I can curse only myself for (lack of) performance then, and add another set of items to the training and practice list. That alone is worth the time and coin.

The fact that this is run weekdays, relatively close for most participants, means that coming in to shoot cold in immediate violence of action creates a much more representative dataset on one's performance than the longer build up, half day or day long practical matches elsewhere. I am a big fan of Mr Davis' IDPA matches out at Peacemaker, complete with vehicles and a range of other fun things across multiple bays - but that is more than a bit of a drive, and ultimately results in a different feel to the day. Both have their place, and I would be loathe to lose either.

As far as cost, to support NRA (faults and all) I would pay quite a bit more as needed. To support the staff, and the development of a robust venue for experimentation, discussion, and learning I would likewise be more than willing to put additional cash on the barrelhead in order to see this thing continue. I look forward to seeing it expanded to other venues as well (not to eliminate the NRA event, but to build on it) - and hopefully we will see the Dayton match as discussed.

[JV_]

Thanks for the support.

cc - Don't forget MEH, JConn, FredM, Mario, and Bill.

Sometimes I may debate the relative design of a stage in terms of forcing a specific solution to a problem, but no one can say it is not fair in that all folks have to solve it the same way (or fail) - and I can curse only myself for (lack of) performance then, and add another set of items to the training and practice list. That alone is worth the time and coin.

One thing we try to consider is not penalizing someone for being a lefty or shooting a revolver (5 vs 6 shots). We can't make every stage neutral, but it's something we're considering when coming up with the stages.

[zeroflux]

I will echo the comments of others in response to the gentleman's criticisms. I understand the limitations of the range space, and think that the staff do a hell of good job setting things up under tight timelines to create innovative and challenging problems.

While most stages are short encounters, (when not holiday themed for fun) the stages generally mimic a wide range of shoot problems that are absolutely things I would need to continue to train against. Sometimes I may debate the relative design of a stage in terms of forcing a specific solution to a problem, but no one can say it is not fair in that all folks have to solve it the same way (or fail) - and I can curse only myself for (lack of) performance then, and add another set of items to the training and practice list. That alone is worth the time and coin.

The fact that this is run weekdays, relatively close for most participants, means that coming in to shoot cold in immediate violence of action creates a much more representative dataset on one's performance than the longer build up, half day or day long practical matches elsewhere. I am a big fan of Mr Davis' IDPA matches out at Peacemaker, complete with vehicles and a range of other fun things across multiple bays - but that is more than a bit of a drive, and ultimately results in a different feel to the day. Both have their place, and I would be loathe to lose either.

As far as cost, to support NRA (faults and all) I would pay quite a bit more as needed. To support the staff, and the development of a robust venue for experimentation, discussion, and learning I would likewise be more than willing to put additional cash on the barrelhead in order to see this thing continue. I look forward to seeing it expanded to other venues as well (not to eliminate the NRA event, but to build on it) - and hopefully we will see the Dayton match as discussed.

I concur with Abu Fitna. On a different subject, Abu Fitna is a pretty humorous moniker. I assume you speak and understand Arabic? ;-)

Any idea when the scores will be posted?

[JV_]

Any idea when the scores will be posted?

Look at post #21 in this thread.

http://pistol-forum.com/attachment.p...2&d=1383182113

[JConn]

This was my first KSTG match, and I have to say that I probably won't be shooting it again. $25 for three stages, 35 or so rounds, and 70 seconds of shooting is pretty ridiculous. I appreciate that people are competing to become more proficient, but that COF was ridiculously easy. The only thing that KSTG has going for it over IDPA is a hot range, and I would love to see that carried over to the rest of the shooting world. Shooters can trash talk LEOs shooting ability all day (and I concur on most points) but we manage to carry loaded guns without ND'ing on a regular basis. I'm not sure why incredibly competent shooters are so horrified at the thought of a hot range - I get range safety, but USPSA/IDPA take it too far.

I'd rather get slaughtered shooting USPSA limited using an appendix holster and a compact 9mm for the same entry fee; the stages are longer, require more thought, you move further than five meters, and there are a lot more than three stages.

I'm sorry to hear that the match did not meet your expectations. The match did not have our normal round count as we try to be around 50 rounds. However we wanted to try some things that were different, have some fun, and incorporate low light into the match. We also were barely getting squads through in an hour which is our time limit. As to the difficulty, unless I'm shooting a stage better than Todd or JoshS or JV, I know I never consider the match easy. Also, we try and make these matches accessible to a broad range of people while still making them fun for the best shooters. This means that while someone like Todd may not have his skills pushed by the stage design (distance, size, number of targets) that does not mean that it is easy. You can always shoot better and improve your speed and accuracy.

Also I'll restate as JV said the staff apart from nra staff are all volunteering an afternoon of their time to make these matches possible. All fees are for the NRA range.

I would urge you to come to one of our other matches as we tend to tackle very different challenges every month.

Thank you for your honesty though. I can only speak for myself but I'm confident in saying that we are always looking for ways to make the matches better.

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