Lives of Mentally Ill, Police Collide

[Odin Bravo One]

One thing the Shoot/No-Shoot class at the NRA taught me is, even as a concealed carrier, I should have a less-lethal option available. For me that is Mace/Pepper Spray. But LE's have even more latitude, such as Tasers, Stronger Mace/Pepper, etc.

While I completely empathize with LE's on the street, I also think *too many* LE's react as though there is only one lethal alternative. I am not saying they should be "liable" for not using a less-lethal option, but I do see it as an obligation when there is time to react and assess. When there is no time, then you do what you have to.

I am not trying to second-guess anyone here or there. I am just saying why bother carrying less-lethal options if you are not trained to react and use them automatically in the same way you are trained to use a firearm?

CC

I don't carry a less lethal option.

Dude is either a lethal threat, or he/she is not. Crazy or not is completely irrelevant. If not a lethal threat...I have many other options. Like ummmm..........leave.

[rsa-otc]

The "on the street" issues with the modern mental health "system" are off the chart. People outside of LE, jailers or mental health folks have very little idea how broke the system really is.

My brother was NJ's 2012 Mental Health Practitioner of the year, we talk all the time about this. It has gotten worse under the ACA. He spends much of his time making sure the forms are correctly filled out taking away from his time with his patients. If he doesn't do that the private 3rd party audit company finds a i not dotted or t not crossed there is massive fines which there is no means to object to or fight the fines legitimacy. Guess how the private 3rd party audit company gets paid, by the fines they collect of course. All in the name of stopping the fraud that the ACA is supposed to minimize thus saving the tax payer money.

[rsa-otc]

I don't carry a less lethal option.

Dude is either a lethal threat, or he/she is not. Crazy or not is completely irrelevant. If not a lethal threat...I have many other options. Like ummmm..........leave.

Bullseye. Dead on target dude could not agree more.

[jlw]

The "on the street" issues with the modern mental health "system" are off the chart. People outside of LE, jailers or mental health folks have very little idea how broke the system really is.

Preach on!!

[Tamara]

Has anyone else here read My Brother Ron?

[JFK]

What I find interesting about this also is it seems that when dealing with the ill LEOs are fighting two fronts. The immediate threat, and the aftermath of public opinion. I would really like to hear more thoughts on that.

Not only are you a target for cuckoo rage, or suicide by cop. After one also must deal with different flavors of mental like this popular opinion near the end of the article.

The grand jury asked questions like those raised by community members and news media. Why did the officer fire so many shots? (by the way it was 4 shots) Why didn't he use a Taser? Someone asked why he didn't shoot the knife out of Mr. Lane's hand.

The last one is a gem.

[Chuck Haggard]

On top of the many and serious issues with the mental health system are the number of dopers who wreck themselves, often permanently, doing various drugs.

Our drug induced excited delirium incidents have gone up dramatically since K2 and "bath salts" hit the scene, as if coke and meth weren't enough.

I had no idea how popular my ExD class was going to be at the Tac Conference, room was filled. I guess the Miami face eating zombie incident made that sort of thing a worry for average folks.


What is being done? Memphis set the example with the CIT, Crisis Intervention Team, concept. This is taking off in LE circles. We teach at least two classes a year at my job, and I farm out my ExD class several more times per year on demand.

Cops should not have to be the profession that is pushing the mental health first aid idea, but that's how it's working out.

[Chuck Haggard]

NJ just over the last couple of years authorized tazers for a limited number of officers. Only so many per active officers per shift etc. Really stupid guidelines IMHO. If I'm going to need it I going to need it now and can't wait for the one guy on shift that has one to show up.

We have seen here in the state where mentally ill subjects have ignored the OC spray and continued the fight even when the officers are being effected by it. In one case in our local town the subject was OCed in a bathroom and still was uncontrollable. The offices started to be overcome by the OC and backed out. The subject ended up dying and the department was sued. I didn't hear what the outcome of the suite was.

.

One, that is stupid as hell.

Two, sounds like that may be a classic ExD case, I'd like to hear more.

[jlw]

Handcuffs are a very poor solution to a medical matter.

[JFK]

What is being done? Memphis set the example with the CIT, Crisis Intervention Team, concept.

Can you give me a synopsis of this?