And statistically, opinion about gun control has been edging in our favor even in the aftermath of these high profile mass shootings. One can only hope that trend continues...
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And statistically, opinion about gun control has been edging in our favor even in the aftermath of these high profile mass shootings. One can only hope that trend continues...
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Apologies for the double-tap, but I hope she is charged as an accessory given this prior knowledge.Originally Posted by Chance
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I'm astounded by Nyeti's comments on this, who I would think would know better. Shane45 I don't know, but he is obviously clueless about our LE and legal system. As a fed, I have a very close working relationship with all of my local departments, and really enjoy working with them. I get calls from them almost every week, when they have something interesting going on and want some help or just want to share the good times. This has been true everywhere I've worked. Yet here of PF, there seem to be some (no idea how many and I'm not willing to paint with as broad a brush as some do) seriously disgruntled local's. I don't know why in every case, but I know why in some cases. No one wants to be stereotyped, yet the relatively few feds some of you have worked with (small numbers, by any real measure), have led you to condemn the entire field. I hope that's not how you conduct investigations...
A huge number (many? most?) DV's don't end up with charges. Spouses are often unwilling to follow through, which makes it pretty impossible for LE to get a conviction. All that happens at the local level, of course. Yet no one here is throwing blame at the locals who may or may not have responded to the DV's, and may or may not have been able to arrest this guy for them.
I'm certainly not blaming the locals in this matter, as I, like all of you, know nothing about it. At least when I type WAG's, I say so. Please refrain from talking when you know nothing about the issues.
As far as the FBI stuff, again, none of you want your rights infringed, yet somehow the FBI should have been able to take this guy out of circulation. Based on what? Where in our legal codes does it enumerate what he did and what should happen? He apparently did enough to warrant a look. How long should we track people who aren't committing crimes? For the rest of their lives? For the rest of the Agent in question's career?
I've seen some cases get as far as an arrest, and have been astounded about the charges, which seem on the light side to me, as a libertarian. All of those cases involved way more than this guy (from what I'm seeing in the media, as once again, I know nothing about it, just like all of you).
Someone said it before, it's not illegal to hate this country. It's not illegal to hate anyone or anything. I hate our current political choices. Maybe I should be watched? Maybe you should be watched? Maybe we should lock you up, just in case you decide to use your guns against anyone?
Did the FBI know about these guys (listed by Nyeti) in advance? Sure. The FBI is surprisingly good at finding "off" people to investigate. What crimes did they commit to warrant further action? I don't remember them all of the top of my head, but certainly in this case, I've seen no indication that the FBI should have or could have done more.
BTW, how many "persons of interest" do you think there are at any one time? What do you think the FBI's budget and staffing is? Should we triple it? Should we trample on rights?
No, let's just insinuate that the FBI is corrupt. Much easier to do than to actually know anything.
If it turns out that the FBI had reason and authority to remove this guy, and they didn't, I'll be the first to blame them. If it turns out they were negligent in their investigation of him, I'll be the first to blame them. If they just didn't get enough to meet the threshold of a gun shy AUSA, well, welcome to the real world. Of course, I won't actually be the first to blame them, since so many others, who know nothing about it, have already done so.
How many agencies have you worked with across America? I've worked for and with scores and scores of them at this point. Probably close to a couple hundred. From 41,000 man departments, to 1 man departments. Sometimes teaching, sometimes in collaboration, always professionally. None of them are free of mistakes. None of them do everything right. Sometimes those mistakes cost lives. Again, if you know a way around this, please enlighten me so we can finally fix all the LE problems in America.
Yes, I'm mad. None of the FBI agents I personally know have any interest in infringing on our Constitutional rights. I'm sure some out there would be ok with it in theory, as most cops have felt that way at one point or another. Our system is far from perfect. Show me a better one.
Let him try to get one in an election year. He may as well just hand over the keys to Trump at that point.
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I think you may be wrong. I honestly feel like we get caught up in the mindset that the majority of people think like we do. Honestly and unfortunately I think we are the minority and the left is slowly winning the " hearts and minds" of the united states.
She should be tried as an accessory to mass murder and executed like that POS tsarniav bitch that survived.
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SLG, I think you need to slow your role brother. By your own admission, your emotionally responding. Please go back and read what I wrote, that it raises a question for me how an investigation is closed where there seems to be a reasonable amount of "smoke" coming from the interior. I fail to see my condemnation of the entire field in anything I have expressed here. I think its a fair and reasonable question.
Quote Originally Posted by shane45 View Post
"I think, as usual, you are on point. The thing that Im having trouble digesting though is it seems one doesn't have to look very far to find the major warning signs so I cant quite calculate how the FBI investigations came to a different conclusion....
"from Handy"
I'm sure the FBI sees an enormous amount of warning signs. The problem is how much legal leeway they have to act without violating citizens rights to act on suspicion. I'm sure there are private citizens on this and other firearms sites that have attracted notice of some type suspicion.
It is sounding more like the shooter did have some serious gay/self loathing/daddy issues. "
Quoted to add since I cant edit the original that this post was a reply to Handy post # 358 and not a declarative impeachment of all LE for those that may be skimming through the thread instead of understanding the exchange.....
C'mon folks .... personal security is a personal responsibility and if you really think any government agency - of ANY flavor - can keep you safe, you are going to be terribly disappointed.
As it relates to the role of LE in general, they do their best work "after the fact".
ETA: Especially the FBI - they do the best (domestic) "after the fact" work in the business.
Last edited by 41magfan; 06-14-2016 at 01:36 PM.
The path of least resistance will seldom get you where you need to be.
I've read everything in this thread. I'm not mad anymore. I still fail to see where you offered something other than an unreasoned critique of an investigation you know nothing about. If I'm wrong, and you do know something about it, then so be it, but if that's the case, then there are other issues at play.
What did this guy do that should have caused the FBI to do something other than what it did? What should they have done?
Last edited by SLG; 06-14-2016 at 01:24 PM.
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