And thus not wanting to carry it.
I know we have many LEO on here, and lots who keep track of crime stats..
Have you guys ever come across any cases like this? To me the benefit of carrying it, along with the alertness to have it ready trumps her fear. But wanted to make sure I ran it by you guys first..
If she's not willing to carry it I wonder how much less willing she would be to actually use it on another human.
If the chances are close to nil.....she's probably not going to get much benefit out of carrying it.
My wife never would adjust the contents of her purse to carry pepper spray for any length of time. Forget carrying a gun. The only time she did that was while she was in nursing school and stayed on the roads at all times of the day. She had to retrieve it once at a gas station late at night and it sent the right message to the three cretins circling her in a van.
I've sprayed a lot of pepper spray in my day. It was never taken from me but boy oh boy there was a LOT of contamination on me. I can't remember a time that I used it where I didn't get a taste as well.
As far as crime stats, I've not seen anyone disarmed of their spray locally but have seen a whole lot of cases where people would spray others during drama....or using it as an offensive weapon rather than a defensive weapon. Those are always fun.
Regards.
So many worse ways she could be assaulted than by her own OC spray. Even open hands could be way more dangerous. If someone has overpowered her, losing control of her spray is not her biggest problem.
The “bad guy always wins” mindset is what I would try to get her to work past.
As posted previously, mindset seems to be the key. I have used pepper foam in a crowded movie theater without anyone but my target being effected., but people will tell you the suspect will catch it and use it against you.
I still carry pepper spray daily, haven't used it much since being required to carry a Taser. In fact the last time I changed MK 3 sprays the use by date was almost 10 years past.
In the academy I distinctly remember watching the golden-orange stream launch and land in my eyeballs. Then having to fight and handcuff someone.
When people cry about giving women knives (not too many of those complaining have regular access to women) I hand the woman a Sharpie and challenge the crier to take the Sharpie away from the woman...
Civilian Tasers are nice. OC far cheaper, but useable. Blades are nice, too.
pat
I think most women I have grown up with and around would be better served with pepper spray or stun baton than a blade.Quote:
Originally Posted by UNM1136
(Except for my wife...but she's Sicilian, so...)
I think Sabre makes a jogger's pepper spray with a lanyard. If the lanyard is pulled loose from the pepper spray canister it won't spray. I'll have to google it...
Found it.
Teaching martial arts in college there was a frequent discussion on young women using a knife. The common knowledge was that they couldn't effectively. Once you had them defend themselves a couple of times with a magic marker, they warmed up to the idea. Several were more convinced of the short fixed blade option over the folders before I was. The magic marker is still my litmus test, and after explaining Bram Frank's biomechanical cutting concepts they were even more interested.
I have not, however, been so gonzo as that Kelly McCaan (Jim Grover) or that Cecil Burch guy when it comes to stress proofing techniques. Maybe with talented students I would lube up with baby oil and then go at it.
Even though biomechanical cutting needs to be done very well to be effective, psychological stops are also possible, and cutting across muscle groups, in the right circumstances, is fantastic.
Given cop training for the last 30 years or so there is an almost pathological fear of blades.
Just a few pesos worth of my thought processes, and several of those young women spent pesos in Juarez while we were in college.
pat
Pepper spray? Nope... I have far less respect for that then I do OC.
When I was younger, I played around with my mother’s spray on her key chain. Sprayed myself right in the face... walked to the bathroom and washed it off, without anyone noticing (including her). Was under 11.
We carry 10% OC, and used 0.93% for training exposure. Our class was one of the first (actually second, I believe) that switched to 5.5% exposure. Supposedly, the class before us had it bad... like Raiders of the Lost Ark face melting bad. [emoji23]
When I was exposed, was fine (and quite a few in my class were in a similar boat). The dummy we had to fight... I beat the hell out of it. The instructor who was grading me made the comment, “now that you knocked the suspect out...” when I had to go cuff the second dummy prone.
Now, once they added water to wash it out... it sucked. Cannot lie about that. But I view OC as useless because of how it affected me. If I use it, I’d probably be using it against wildlife instead of people.
Taser... now that definitely works. I’m a Type I diabetic, and the muscle contractions caused the inserted port that injects insulin (insulin pump) to break/bleed. Never saw one break until that day.
I would wait until you get out of the academy before you start making any such determinations. I’ve seen tasers fail MANY more times than I’ve seen OC fail. That being said, the worst knock-down-drag-out fight I’ve ever been in was after OC failed to work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Screwball
I was a Chemical Agent and Taser instructor when I was on SWAT. I’ve exposed a lot of people with CS but nothing like Chuck Haggard has with OC. We are issued Sabre Red. I have a stream nozzle on it. The last guy I sprayed with it dropped like I’d hit him on the head with a baton. Frankly it surprised me because I expected it to fail based on his behavior and it was going to be written I tried it before sending my dog. It’s probably the best example of OC working I’ve ever seen. I’d put my failure rate with OC at 10% or less. I have the stream on my belt and I also carry a Mk9 on searches.
I carry a Taser because I have to. It’s the new bulky one with two cartridges that you need because of the high failure rate of the Taser in the field. I’ve never used it on the street. It’s been spark tested and deployed when I qualified with it. Taser works great in the classroom. I’d put it’s failure rate about 50% on the road.
They are both less lethal tools. If you’re using less lethal tools on drunk, drugged, crazy people you’ll have failures. If I had to choose between the two I’d take Sabre Red over a Taser any day. But that’s based on my experience and current job. Your mileage may vary.
Agreed on the taser failures. I fought through my first exposure and volunteered for a second hit. Just having loose polyester pants prevented one prong from even touching my skin let alone digging in far enough for a good connection.
We are seeing multiple failures on tasers in the field......and subsequently, officers not knowing to go hands on after a failed deployment. Loose clothing, jackets, etc......
Not the cure all it was touted to be by far.
Regards.
Tasers may have a better success rate when used in corrections when there are already several others to assist.
Not really our failure rate with the taser is about the same. 50% or so.
One must have the correct mindset, the willingness to protect oneself and loved ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by lwt16
If not absolutely willing or unsure, don't carry it.
An attractive young woman looking for a carry gun in the LGS while I was there one day related how she'd previously attempted to defend herself with pepper spray. The assailant just put his hand over the spray stream and continued to demand her money/purse/whatever it was he took. Fortunately, as she described the incident, that was all.
I'm sure he had to wash his hand soon afterward, but he managed to keep it from getting to his face just by getting to contact range and responding to it effectively.
That could have gone so much worse. Great lesson for her though.
I think it’s Craig who describes OC as “eye jab in a can”. Why was she still standing there after the spray? It’s not a magic bad-guy off-switch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlongJohnson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Screwball
OC spray IS pepper spray.
FFS
I've used OC/pepper spray on somewhere between 300 and 400 bad guys in my career, and around 2000 students. Let's just say my observations and experience are significantly different than yours. Same-same for my field experience with Tasers.
People think that there isn't any training needed to use OC. It's a canister, you just spray it, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by OlongJohnson
Those people don't know what they don't know.
Attractive young lady fucked up.