Hopefully everyone understands that this is a professional, genuine discussion among peers. As such, I'm not going to waste a thousand words per response saying "you're a lovely little snowflake." Responses below are blunt...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mariodsantana
If you put a colored lightbulb just barely down range of the cover to be used, could you position it so the shadow line is the fault line? Something like "only one shoulder can be lit up by the green light, until the targets are lit up by the shooter."
Four problems:
- Not all ranges are equipped with electrical outlets everywhere you might want to hang a target.
- Lightbulbs aren't bulletproof. Anything down range is going to get shot, and having frayed electrical wires + broken glass down range is a problem.
- Light would have to be kitten strong to cast a shadow in bright sunlight.
- To see whether the light was on the shooter's shoulder or not, the RO would have to be able to see the front of the shooter... putting the RO in a position not conducive to safety.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BaiHu
Make your line with a long piece of cardboard and then sprinkle baby powder along the line cardboard edge and then remove the cardboard-voila! you have a line/edge. Wind might be a factor, but it shouldn't be too bad and you'll be able to tell if they 'kick' dirt onto the powder vs 'stepping' into the powder. If the person steps in the baby powder, you'll have a foot print. This makes the cost low and easily refreshed b/w rounds.
- How do you determine if someone stepped in a thin line of baby powder sprinkled on grass, or gravel?
- What if it's raining?
- Time to re-apply powder in exactly the same place/thickness/etc for each shooter (to keep things fair) would be monumental.
- Every time someone accidentally steps on it to paste targets you'd have to re-apply.
- For many stages, once a shooter has engaged the targets from cover he moves on to another position. Now stepping on the "fault" line forces you to determine whether it happened before or after he was supposed to leave cover.
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Alternatively, but a similar concept, if you've ever used a plumb line, it is a 'chalk' line that you snap onto a wall. Instead of snapping it onto the ground-which won't stay as, leave a colored plumb line tacked into the ground and if the line is kicked or stepped on, it should conceivably spread the powder along the line or leave the powder on the shooter's shoe.
- You say "plumb line" I say "tripwire." Trip hazards on a live fire stage are a very bad thing.
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The last idea, that isn't my favorite, but relatively amusing: On an indoor range, bring some bubble wrap and put some double sided sticky tape on the bubble wrap and leave it at the 'cover' edge. If they step on it, 'pop', you'll see that some bubble wrap has been destroyed and the shooter gets a penalty.
- Once Shooter-A has stepped on an area and popped all the bubbles there, what keeps Shooter-B from stepping on the same spot? Or do you double-tape fresh bubble wrap after each shooter?
- As you said, the solution doesn't work outdoors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
orionz06
Not sure how effective it would be but what about a concentration penalty? Use a laser to activate a flash or strobe that is pointed at the shooter. Deduct point each time it goes off.
Discussed in OP. To clarify:
- Requires electricity down range.
- Anything down range will get shot.
- Most sensors aren't precise enough to cut a very specific go/no-go line.
- Different people of different heights and sizes will not expose themselves around cover the same way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chris Rhines
Do away with the cover requirement altogether.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Corlissimo
Going along with BaiHu's string idea, why not just use a light rope or string that is raised off the ground? It could have a bell hung from it to indicate contact with the shooter's leg. It could also be offset towards the uprange side to allow for the feet to pass under it while still keeping said feet in the proper location.
- As you said and as discussed above, trip hazard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dropkick
If the targets are farther away from the cover than the shooter, the targets will "see" the shooter first. I'd draw up some "science" in Paint, but to save time it's the concept from AMIS. So the shooter would need to be farther away from cover than the targets in order to see the targets before they "see" the shooter. You could setup a fault line parallel to the cover X+y feet behind the cover. (X = distance from target to cover. y = a few extra feet to insure the shooter see the targets first.) (And technically the fault line would be arc whose curve be based on the distance from cover, but that'd probably be a pain to setup.)
- Math is hard.
- The whole "seeing first" thing is fine for static threats lying in wait who know exactly where the opponent is coming from when the searcher is moving slowly and deliberately. "Slow & deliberate" is not the way people pie corners in games (or the scenarios the games tend to simulate).
- Seeing first -- as demonstrated in AMIS -- is far from the only determiner of who shoots first and who hits first.
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If the official is couple feet behind the shooter and looking over the shooter's shoulder that is closer to cover, the official should not see any of the target in between the side of the cover and the side of the shooter's head. At any point the shooter steps out too far, the official should be able to see the target. Does that make any sense? I might have to take some photos and do some drawings.
- Shooters are constantly moving. The RO would need to be mirroring his movement perfectly which is not practical.
- The RO may not be tall enough to see over the shooter's shoulder, or may be too tall to see a line from shooter's shoulder to the target unless RO squats.
- It's basically just a variation of the (much simpler) IDPA "50%" rule which is subjective and therefore more prone to mistake and abuse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MikeyC
I think fire would make an effective fault line, but it's going to play hell on insurance costs.
Winner!