Originally Posted by
EPF
I think discussing “strength doesn’t matter” as an axiom of bjj/MMA that humorously doesn’t ring true in the training room is a conversation separate from the matter of a self defense fight possibly ending in gunfire. The conversation so far has meandered back and forth between both realms.
In the ensuing discussion, we fell into the trap of downplaying the huge advantage that skill provides. Which seems to often present as an excuse not to train by the self defense oriented general public.
IMO it would be better to separate size and strength (S&S) as related to training against other trained fighters from self defense against a motivated but untrained person. For that matter, debating strength vs technique with untrained or minimally trained people is pointless because they don’t really comprehend the skill variable.
The replies seem to meander back and forth between the training and self defense arenas depending on which one supports your arguments more at the moment.
I postulate that if drawn on a graph S&S crosses the technique line at some point. IMO that point is much higher than some of the posts suggest.
A high level of technical skill overcomes a LOT of untrained size and strength. Anyone who trains in a decent sized facility sees that in action all the time. For example, to a striker with several years in and hundreds of rounds of sparring under his belt, a strike thrown by an untrained person of any size registers in slow motion like Neo in the Matrix.
Also, for now let’s leave the initiative deficit problem of self defense out of it and just focus on skill vs S&S.
Those who regularly train in MMA or one of its core component arts fall prey to Dunning-Krueger like anyone else does. In regular training we see big strong guys get a 2-3 year blue belt base of skill and quickly begin to erase the gap with those who are smaller but much more technical. So yes a mid level blue belt skill large guy can beat a high level small guy because S&S turbo charges your skill. It’s a very human mistake to extrapolate that difference to every jacked guy you see walking around.
This is where I think it helps to separate the training and fighting arenas of combat. Obviously in my example of the jacked blue belt, the graph line starts closer crosses earlier, and is more vertical. But Is that example a realistic way to judge for a street altercation?
To use the previous example, how many 275 pound high level wrestlers are there walking around? For that matter how many ~ 250# physically fit people are walking around period?
The vast majority of potential threats aren’t walking the streets with 2+ years of boxing/wrestling/bjj but I will concede there is a high percentage of strong/fit potential adversaries. That is why having a high level of skill is important IMO.
As noted previously tools are also a major factor in self defense. The right tool employed at the right time alone can overcome both S&S and skill to some extent. So what are we talking about?
For the sake of discussion I propose something roughly like:
S&S > couch potato
Skill > 75% of the S&S differences
Skill+ some S&S > 25% S&S monsters
S&S + tool > S&S alone
Skill+ tool > S&S + tool
Skill+ tool+ some S&S > most any threats
I’m not saying this dumb chart I just made up is gospel and there are gradients to each category but even if the stuff I just scribbled is way off the mark it’s in the right grid square.