Question regarding Speer Part Number: 53966 230gr GDHP

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09-11-2018, 01:40 PM
Sixgun_Symphony

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Question regarding Speer Part Number: 53966 230gr GDHP

Its regarding Speer Part Number: 53966 230gr GDHP

This is issued ammo by our Dept and I've sent an email out to Speer to hear what they have have to say about it...

Out of my own curiosity on what is happening here? This is also not my duty ammunition but a co-worker. Our agency allows Officers to make a personal choice in caliber (9mm or 45ACP). I personally choose 9mm and I'm issued Part Number: 53617 124gr +P GDHP. I have experienced absolutely zero of the issues described and as in the photos attached with my 9mm. My rounds look nearly like they did the day I pulled them out of the box brand new regardless of how many times they've been loaded in the chamber.

Claims made by co-worker are:

- that the hallow point is "closing" after being loaded and unload in the chamber.

- that none of the rounds are being loaded and unload to and from the chamber an excessive amount. And that this is happening within only a few trips into the chamber.

- Duty weapon in this case is a Glock G21 but also that the problem is occurring in other handguns outside of the Glock

I have my own skepticism here myself.. as some of the rounds do appear to be almost abnormally "beat-up". So I've questioned my friend and commented how in my opinion the rounds appear to have been loaded/unloaded almost incessantly and or damaged in some other way. To which he swears they have not. I made my own assumptions that maybe it had something to do with the 45 and feed geometry or something alone those lines with the G21 but his claims are that its happening with a number of other 45 caliber handguns at the same rate. Also goes on to say that he has not seen this before with Winchester Ranger RA45T or Federal P45HST1 whatsoever.

Regardless...

- Is this a common problem with GDHP 45?

- I'm assuming terminal performance both in open air shots and barriers would be severally degraded at this point?
09-11-2018, 02:06 PM
Totem Polar

Those look terrible. I just went through almost 400 rounds of this stuff during the summer (in 2 1911s, several mags at a time in between boxes of ball) and I didn’t see anything like that. Don’t know what to say beyond that. Our local Sheriffs dept issues this load, and has done so for years.
09-11-2018, 02:32 PM
Sixgun_Symphony

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidheshooter

Those look terrible. I just went through almost 400 rounds of this stuff during the summer (in 2 1911s, several mags at a time in between boxes of ball) and I didn’t see anything like that. Don’t know what to say beyond that. Our local Sheriffs dept issues this load, and has done so for years.

I've also never seen it before. At least not to this degree. I mean I've seen multiple hallow point designs including my duty ammunition with some very minor and IMO insignificant "scuffing" as a result of simply riding up the feed ramp... But not like this!

While my friend and co-work is very much a "gun" guy whose opinion I generally value and trust. I'm still very skeptical and he is only a sample of one that I know of within our agency having this "issue". I haven't really asked around to other 45 guys within our organization at this point yet.

I've gotten two replies from Speer/ATK already.

Originally the LE distributor for Colorado (my local state) said that "To be completely honest I've never seen this before" and that he would forward my email/photos to his counter parts...

So far the responses have been that "the 45 is thinner at the top than the 9mm designs." "they have only seen it after being cambered a lot."

Which kind of goes back to what I said about the rounds looking abnormally "beat-up" or loaded/unloaded almost incessantly and or damaged in some other way. Now my buddy is no idiot when it comes to guns and ammo. In fact he is a very dialed in type guy with regards to this stuff. But at the same time I said to him you know. Come on bro, these look like your were trying to pull bullets out with a wrench or something lol. So I'm kind of at a loss lol.
09-11-2018, 03:47 PM
L-2

My .45 Speer Gold Dot HP ammo closes up after rechambering.

I don't know how many times I'd need to re-chamber that ammo to get it closed to the degree of those in the photos. I'll guess ~10x as I don't keep the roundsd

I'll typically shoot the offending round before it got to the degree in the original post's photos.

My .45 ACP guns are two Glock 30 models; and dsass
09-11-2018, 04:06 PM
Wayne Dobbs

Baby Jesus is wailing! DO NOT CHAMBER A DUTY ROUND MORE THAN ONCE. Load the gun, chamber check it and then leave it alone. Loading and unloading beats up the ammo and is an excellent way to run the odds up for an ND.
09-11-2018, 04:22 PM
KhanRad

Gold Dots use a soft lead core and a soft, plated copper jacket. Therefore, if there is nose impact on a steep feed ramp, particularly with heavier recoiling calibers that use a stiff recoil spring, it will deform the GD nose. Most modern JHP or bonded bullets use stronger lead alloys and copper alloy jackets that have more tensile strength.

Glocks in 9mm tend to feed the cartridge with little feed ramp impact due to the feed angle and ramp angle. Glocks in .40 and .45 have a much steeper feed ramp and magazine feed angle.

There are many .45acp pistol designs out there that feed JHPs more reliably than Glock .45s.
09-11-2018, 05:14 PM
Sixgun_Symphony

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Dobbs

Baby Jesus is wailing! DO NOT CHAMBER A DUTY ROUND MORE THAN ONCE. Load the gun, chamber check it and then leave it alone. Loading and unloading beats up the ammo and is an excellent way to run the odds up for an ND.

Agree... a practice I followed since my early years, carried it with me into the Army and now LE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KhanRad

Gold Dots use a soft lead core and a soft, plated copper jacket. Therefore, if there is nose impact on a steep feed ramp, particularly with heavier recoiling calibers that use a stiff recoil spring, it will deform the GD nose. Most modern JHP or bonded bullets use stronger lead alloys and copper alloy jackets that have more tensile strength.

Glocks in 9mm tend to feed the cartridge with little feed ramp impact due to the feed angle and ramp angle. Glocks in .40 and .45 have a much steeper feed ramp and magazine feed angle.

There are many .45acp pistol designs out there that feed JHPs more reliably than Glock .45s.

essentially I figure this would be a likely reasons.. I think I kind of hinted to this as well above, not as well written as this.
09-15-2018, 10:45 AM
Tokarev

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Dobbs

Baby Jesus is wailing! DO NOT CHAMBER A DUTY ROUND MORE THAN ONCE. Load the gun, chamber check it and then leave it alone. Loading and unloading beats up the ammo and is an excellent way to run the odds up for an ND.

It would be an interesting experiment to see how a battered and excessively chambered Gold Dot performs in gel. Would it still work properly or would the collapse hinder expansion?

Some day I'll have to check...

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
09-15-2018, 11:31 AM
Hambo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sixgun_Symphony

- that none of the rounds are being loaded and unload to and from the chamber an excessive amount. And that this is happening within only a few trips into the chamber.

I'd tell him to bring his pistol and a few rounds so you can see how many times it actually takes for this to happen. I'm betting that "a few" and "not excessive" isn't. No matter how many times it takes, it's still a bad practice.
09-17-2018, 07:54 AM
Wayne Dobbs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tokarev

It would be an interesting experiment to see how a battered and excessively chambered Gold Dot performs in gel. Would it still work properly or would the collapse hinder expansion?

Some day I'll have to check...

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

You get hardball performance...

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