Smith & Wesson (re)enters the pump gun market

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Originally Posted by Wonder9

14.5" LOP is garbage juice.

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Exactly. Let's take the most critical dimension of a shotgun that is most responsible for their reputation as brutes to shoot, and make it worse. That'll work out GREAT.

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Originally Posted by Borderland

It wouldn't take very long and the cost would be minimal to ream the rifling out of a revolver. The patterns would improve, no doubt. That would be my approach if I needed a serious snake swatter. I have an old Taurus 85 (S&W 36 copy) that isn't good for anything except shooting rats and snakes. It has a canted barrel so useless past 5 yards. I might look into that.

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Don’t forget to include the $200 NFA tax in your build budget.

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Originally Posted by MistWolf

Don’t forget to include the $200 NFA tax in your build budget.

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Hmmm……haven’t folks used “rifling” with no twist(straight grooves) to get around that?

I'm unclear on the need for a dedicated snake gun. The one time I needed to shoot a snake, I did so from about 4' away using Speer 38spec shot shells out of a 4" GP100. One shot nearly decapitated the snake (head was dangling by a thin piece of meat, snake was DRT). That seems plenty effective out to a distance reasonable for killing snakes (further away and you can take an aimed shot or avoid the snake).

Chris

Shot loads from rifled barrels often produce a “doughnut” pattern with only a few pellets in the center. If you’ve got a pistol +load combination that patterns well there’s no need to do anything else.

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Originally Posted by peterb

Shot loads from rifled barrels often produce a “doughnut” pattern with only a few pellets in the center. If you’ve got a pistol +load combination that patterns well there’s no need to do anything else.

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Yeah, I know. The gun I referenced above does that. It was still hell on that snake. I spend a lot of time outdoors and in the woods, yet have only needed to shoot a snake once. When I did, the less-than-optimum pattern of my standard revolver worked fine. That's what makes me question the need for a dedicated "snake gun". Maybe it's some pent up need I haven't yet experienced. :)

Chris

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Originally Posted by Bergeron

I've got a Saiga, and it's a beastly action competition shotgun- but I'd pass on it for anything defense oriented. Capacity is not what I really need in a defensive shotgun. My experience mirrors yours, leaving a mag loaded and in the gun deforms the top round. Plus, the mags are huge and bulky. I haven't seen rimlock, but I've never messed with drums, either.

A fun gun, a powerful competition tool, but to me, mine is not a defensive weapon.

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I also found fully loaded Saiga mags difficult to load reliably/quickly on a closed bolt. I ended up reloading the Saiga like an MP-5, manually locking the bolt to the rear before loading the mag, then releasing the bolt. Kind of a nuisance.


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I found that regularly practicing closed-bolt reloads made big difference, and that incorporating magwells into the gun moots the problem.

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Originally Posted by Wonder9

14.5" LOP is garbage juice.

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To give a visual understanding of why this is a problem, behold the following picture of a woman attempting to use one of those garbage Turkish bullpup shotguns:

Attachment 76094

Look at how the ridiculous length of pull stretches her out and forces her body into a position where she has no hope of actually dominating the gun. Best she can do is try and widen her base to not get knocked on her ass from the incoming force and hold on.

This was her first experience with a shotgun, apparently. Odds that she'll want another after are exceedingly slim.

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Originally Posted by Wonder9

14.5" LOP is garbage juice.

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Originally Posted by TCinVA

Look at how the ridiculous length of pull stretches her out and forces her body into a position where she has no hope of actually dominating the gun. Best she can do is try and widen her base to not get knocked on her ass from the incoming force and hold on.

This was her first experience with a shotgun, apparently. Odds that she'll want another after are exceedingly slim.

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Suggestive of the old "rite of passage" some people thought was necessary vis-a-vis shotguns (give them an old 12 or 10 gauge with plenty of pull, lots of stock drop, a hard rubber buttplate and the heaviest load in the house... then guffaw at the results). A 14.5" LOP is going to be interesting for a lot of people