Federal officers in Portland may have been permanently blinded by lasers

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Originally Posted by trailrunner

This is misleading at best, and false at worst. You can't say one wavelength is "more dangerous" without more specifics.

The eye is most sensitive to middle regions of the visible spectrum, which is why the denial system that we developed, tested, and deployed, used a green laser.

LEOs deployed to riot situations may need to start doing baseline scans. We started doing this about 5 years ago for the engineers that most often worked with lasers.

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No, it depends on the energy level and the wavelength. Yes, the eye is more sensitive to the middle waves lengths but shorter wavelengths are more dangerous to receptors and eye structures. That's why folks need to screen against UV, a major cause of macular degeneration.

When looking at light, you have to take the spectral sensitivity function and the energy level into consideration. The retina has specific mechanisms to shield against the shorter wavelengths.

Any wavelength is dangerous at the right energy levels. Short wavelengths have more risks.

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Originally Posted by vcdgrips

One of the DHS briefers mentioned the user of lasers and the fact that LEOS are being issued eye protection for it.

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This may work for a while, but the hard part with this is that there is no eye protection that will work for all wavelengths (colors), short of putting a piece of metal in front of you. This was a problem we had way back in the day trying to design eye protection for pilots when they were first getting laser by fishing trawlers and other people. AR (anti reflection coatings) are designed for certain wavelengths. They can be tuned to work for several wavelengths at the expense of overall transmission, which means that you'll be wearing dark sunglasses. I guess that's better than nothing. There are other schemes to protect the eyes, but they tend to be very expensive, complex, and don't work that great.

I posted earlier that lasers only designed to damage eyes were banned for military use in the early 1990s. Anyone deliberately shining a laser in someone's eyes should be considered to be attempting great harm that is also permanent.

There should also be great concern if someone gets lucky and points a laser down an optic. That could have very bad consequences.

"LE guy seems to have a DP Pro on his pistol"

That is likely a USMS SOG Deputy based on my working with a Deputy US Marshal in my district for the last 10ish years who is on the team. I was able to shoot a SOG only issued STI 2011 in Jan/Feb of this year.

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Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer

No, it depends on the energy level and the wavelength. Yes, the eye is more sensitive to the middle waves lengths but shorter wavelengths are more dangerous to receptors and eye structures. That's why folks need to screen against UV, a major cause of macular degeneration.

When looking at light, you have to take the spectral sensitivity function and the energy level into consideration. The retina has specific mechanisms to shield against the shorter wavelengths.

Any wavelength is dangerous at the right energy levels. Short wavelengths have more risks.

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A lot of this doesn't make sense to what we're talking about. The stuff that makes sense is where you agree with me.

And again, your last sentence is misleading at best.

Well, we will have to leave it to the reader. Lasers are dangerous.

As an aside, there was a spy novel, where an Islamic terrorist was to look through a new optical telescope. The good guys were going to shoot a green laser beam from a satellite through the optics and zap him. The big green flash was supposed to be the hand of God, seeing Islam likes green. That would turn his followers away as God nailed him. Whether this would work, I have no idea.

The big green flash at sunset is fun, not relevant. It was fun to see a herd of vision researcher leave the bar and run to water's edge to watch it.

I posted this in the last thread we had talking about lasers.... still applies....

"DoD OCONUS policy pretty much is that lasers being pointed at us are the same as rounds being fired at us, you hit me with beams and your face is gonna catch some bee's.... Deadly force is authorized in defense of self and others, and engaging me or my guys with a targeting device or visible laser as a disabling weapon is evidencing hostile act and intent. Ensuring that command teams understand the full ramifications and capabilities of laser systems can be problematic at times, hopefully you have a JAG that is good to go and a command team that embraces reality. There are some interesting foreign security systems utilizing high powered lasers and optical detection systems at secure sites, note this, it targets the optic but there is typically a operator behind it, so.... No other country has FDA regulation of lasers like the US does, so many of these things coming in to the States and the ones being used in Hong Kong will absolutely destroy eyes and burn skin....I saw some stuff for sale on the open market in Japan and Korea that was scary powerful.... There are also some pretty powerful types available on Wish...

Domestically as far as I am concerned it is assault and should be dealt with as such..... but like many things it won't be.

https://burninglaserpointer.com/luci...=1592773224925

The above link shows a readily available laser that will burn stuff to include eyeballs for under 25 bucks....plus shipping.... there are many others like it. As I noted before on the Hong Kong protest thread, this is a "new" threat that all of us need to take very seriously...."

I am perfectly willing to see people wielding lasers as weapons burned down in the same way that LE should do if they were pointing guns at officers, Crowds will learn real quick that lasers are off limits here in the States.....Greater good, ounce of prevention and all that....

^^^^^Couldn't agree more.

Antifa likes to refer to the laser guys as "light mages". Kind of like a fantasy cartoon role.
How hard is it to pick out and snatch someone with a handheld, visible spectrum laser?
Are the IR non-visible as dangerous to the eyes? Cause I'm sure they will switch to those if they aren't already employing them.
And where do they get the gear to jam Fed quality comms? That shit has to be pricey. And hard to move around on the sly.

Id theorise more dangerous as you dont even know your being targeted. I got splashed with IR once and my eye hurt for days.

Spectrum is spectrum.... you disrupt it then no one can use it, it's illegal, but hey.... so's most of the rest of the shit they are doing.... IR is bad JuJu as well, luckily in order to aim and use them you typically need to use NVD's, so cost is keeping them out for now....eventually they will show up, if they haven't already, but investigating the purchase trail for NVD's , IR lasers and such should make for an interesting time...

Reading some of their AAR's from previous actions it appears that they keep their "light mages" back and to the periphery of the crowd,using it as protection, at times they are placed in elevated positions. I would expect that the riot line would have a hard time grabbing one but that snatch teams coming in from the flanks could pull it off, particularly if the main riot line is pumping out some spicy air and stingy balls as a distractor....

One of the issues is that possessing powerful lasers isn't illegal, it's just that no one legit will sell them to you unless you have the proper credentials or need in the States. With all the shit for sale coming in from China though there is no real way to stop it, and I am loath to make a rule against laser possession due to the whole gun rights issue.....In my mind I figure lasers should be legal the same as guns so limiting possession is kind of a issue for me... Thus we probably need to add laws clarifying domestic use of lasers for offense and defense that mirror that of guns. Make it the same offense and other than a few die hards we wont have issue as most of that crowd ain't gonna get burned down pointing guns at cops. The confused middle class moms ain't gonna provide that protection line for assholes if they think they and their kids could get shot doing so....