I’m debating between a 4-20X and a 4.5-30x scope for a rifle I have on order.
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I’m debating between a 4-20X and a 4.5-30x scope for a rifle I have on order.
Based on my limited experience, like lumens/candela, more is always better UNLESS you are substituting Xs for quality. Clear, bright glass, a useable reticle, metal vice plastic internals. I hate to say it but the big names are big names for reasons.
That said, my Vortex (the lower cost viper) on my hunting rifle does what I need, but the Nikon on my daughter's rifle is better. Same power, better glass, better reticle. Same price. I have also been saying for years that the glass should cost at least as much as the gun that it is on.
Just my thoughts.
pat
Optical performance declines at the higher end of the zoom range. My S&B 5-25x56 is at its most useful between 15-20x. I’ll take a bright, crisp image and some more eyebox over another 5x most of the time. I recall one stage where I had a win because I could see the targets hidden in the woods, and almost everyone else was fucked because it was really dark and complex. I think I was using 15x.
So, assuming the scopes are of equivalent quality, I’d recommend the higher power so you’re not maxing it out.
For PRS I tend to stay around 12x to 15x. Glass clarity and functional reticle is more important to me than magnification. Too much power and you can’t find the target plate quickly. By the end of the day the plates are gray and tough to see. Too much power makes tracking through recoil and watching your own trace more difficult. For the price, I like the Steiner 4-16 P4Xi. $850 at Cameraland. Ask for Doug, he does discounts.Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleLebowski
I don’t compete either, but would go with the x20. I think you risk distortion at the higher powers (30x) unless you drop SERIOUS coin on the glass. The field of view up in that range is going to be very narrow as well...like looking thru a soda straw. I say leave the 30x stuff to the F-Class guys. I’ve never really needed anything beyond 16x or 20x to go well past 1000yds. In fact, if the cows cooperate, I’ll be going to about 1350yds on Wednesday using a Razor 5-20x. The .308 has a 4-15x. Plenty for both.
I've played this game for a while now. I find the 5-25x range to be about perfect. I usually run positional stages on 11-16x, but I often dial up to 25x on prone KYL type stages. There will be times where you need high mag to spot hits on small steel. For your choices- 4.5-30x for sure. I've shot a few matches with a 3.6-18x, and I find that I really missed the higher mag on a few stages. Low end really doesn't matter, as myself nor my shooting partners have ever shot a PRS stage below about 10x.
ETA: for PRS events, you don't need a ZCOMP or Tangent Theta level glass to compete. You will be given the target distances and locations at the beginning of each stage. You don't need to count hairs, just see a grayed out steel plate. I personally use the Leupold Mk5 5-25. I've compared it side by side with a Zcomp, TT and S&B- are those better? Yes, but not by all that much, and they cost twice as much.
I'm assuming you are looking at First Focal plane scopes. For this game, only FFP need apply. I do like a "tree" type reticle. I find the Horus (H59, Tremor 3) too be too much, but my partner likes his T3. I use the CCH in the Mk5 and find its a good balance of hold off information, and not too many lines.
Clear glass is the most important thing in my opinion. Don't buy a cheap scope. You'll want a reticle that is right for what you are doing. The old MIL DOT reticles have been replaced. Get a scope with a FFP reticle that has hash marks that will allow you to hold off. Get either MOA or MIL depending on who you shoot with. A lot of people are going MIL but the people I shoot with all use MOA so that's what I use.
I shoot 22 rimfire precision matches. I have a Vudoo with a NightForce 7-35 ATACR. I'm finding I use the range from 15 to 25 the most, but once in a while 35x is just right. If the glass is clear, you can always turn the power down, but if you sometimes need more you have it available.
Another vote for -30. Also, 25x makes it easy to spot your targets at 200 yards on paper. Sometimes, I can even spot hits on shoot & c at 300 which makes it easier for training/range use.
Don't skimp on mounts. I also had a bad experience with Razor Gen II turrets. The turrets got loose from sitting in the safe. So when I was dialing elevation, the POI wasn't moving. An instructor at a precision rifle course mentioned he saw that as well.
For what it's worth, MK5, MK6, S&B, Steiner M series are what I have experience with. Don't remember one having better glass than another (not that I ever compared).
The key difference among high end scopes is the reticle, with the second being the ease of manipulation of turrets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleLebowski
Give me a call at 916-670-1103x2 and I can go over this topic in detail :) Overall this topic is covered pretty well above, typical PRS shooters use a 5-25ish magnification with 10-18x being the sweet spot and allowing the reticle to be at an optimal size and allowing more FOV. Having the higher top end can make zeroing easier if the conditions permit it, repeatability is #1 of course but having an optical system that you typically get in a tier one/alpha class scope can help cut through mirage and have a more forgiving parallax. Reticle choice is also very important and very personal, there are some great scopes out there with sub-par reticle choices IMO. Our team competitor Dan Bertocchini is sponsored by Leupold running a 5-25 MK5HD and has had some strong finishes in NRL, PRS (AG Cup qualifiers) this year so it's obvious that you do not need to spend over $3k to be competitive. Many of our customers who have tried practically everything out there who have got their first Zero Compromise Optic scopes have been ecstatic with the large eyebox/bigger picture due to it's unique ocular design, the additional clarity over other previous optics they owned. Many of the more expensive scopes have higher quality materials and tend to be more rugged, let's not forget the warranty and service that you get from some companies over others.
Here's an example I had from a customer recently who won his first 1 mile match his first competition out with his ZCO:
"Just wanted to let you know how stoked I am with my first 1 mile benchrest win yesterday at TVP in Ohio. The ZCO 5-27 in an honest opinion, gave me an advantage over the competition. I had no issues with mirage like others did....however...I did shoot at 17x and man...that floating dot in the middle...with that amount of spacing...is freaking perfect. Using the MPCT3 reticle...it made my life soooo much easier. My brain took to it...adapted to it...and ran with it. I had two spotters behind me for the sighter periods and I was spotting my own shots easily and making corrections before they could even talk. Talk about a fun reticle."