But that's just a problem in general. How do you choose between squared away in-person trainers and non-squared-away in-person trainers? I've got about a 1:6 ratio along those lines in my immediate area. (For Twitter misinformation purposes: that's a completely made up statistic.)Quote:
Originally Posted by YVK
Since I showed up in this post, I'll just jump in here to second this. Having the willingness to do the work is one thing, but figuring out better ways to do it, to think about it, to apply what you're learning, and in other ways to use that effort to actually make improvements is another thing. And coaching, for me, has been essential. Would I have made greater strides if I'd had in-person coaching focused on one or two days of class time? Hard to say, but I suspect not. There is some evidence to support that inasmuch as I've taken several in-person shooting classes with national instructors. I've enjoyed all of them and I would say I've learned a lot at them, but not necessarily about how to improve my shooting.Quote:
Originally Posted by JCN
Edit: I'm also glad JCN changed his sig line, because I never saw 'dickhead' in his posts, though I do see a lot of 'gadfly.' Gadflies can be unpopular, sure--the standard example being Socrates with the hemlock. But that doesn't make them dickheads. Don't sell yourself short, JCN!
With Covid, hasn't the country been running a multi year test of online training and coaching versus in person interactions?
Trial and (mostly) error.Quote:
Originally Posted by YVK
Stoeger comes across well in print. Not sure about video.
Something Rob Leatham has told me, is that while there are significant mental aspects involved, shooting is very physical. As an instructor, he believes it is very important to stand close to you so as to be able to touch you to optimally diagnose and instruct.
Good question. I think it's like how people new to combatives can't tell the difference between the real deal and a Mc Dojo. Some people don't want the real deal because it's scary, humbling, and you have to work hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by YVK
I’ve taken two formal classes. One from a local trainer. The other from a GM. These were both 5+ years ago. Fast forward to today and they helped me very little. Why? Partially because I didn’t practice consistently. Also because they didn’t teach self analysis. When I look at the high level of online coaching and education now it’s much better than what I received in these classes. At some point a shooter has to start analyzing their own shooting. My biggest gains have come over the past couple years as I’ve learned how to do that.
If I had to choose between the two, I think online coaching is superior to group classes. I recently backed out of a Stoeger class. Not because I think it won’t help but because I think my resources are better spent elsewhere. Class costs, travel and ammo would’ve made it a $1200+ training session plus time off work. If I wanted I could buy several years worth of Max Michels patreon for that or an entire year of PTSG gold membership.
I have been shocked at how many of the up and coming CO gms have reached an elite level with very little to no formal group training.
The secret is not really a secret. It’s lots of time and reps of practice.
Watching them shoot it becomes pretty clear who I would want.Quote:
Originally Posted by YVK
But sadly Google and YouTube analytics will pop up those others before Stoeger.
Who? Literally (as in actually) never heard of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by YVK
Hey thanks! I had to Google the context of gadfly and seems appropriate:Quote:
Originally Posted by Moylan
A gadfly is a person who interferes with the status quo of a society or community by posing novel, potentially upsetting questions, usually directed at authorities. The term is originally associated with the ancient Greek philosopher Socrates in his defense when on trial for his life
Like Moylan said, it’s no different than picking any type of training.Quote:
Originally Posted by YVK
I can tell you what I personally did.
I started pistol in December 2015 for self defense purposes:
Did my CCW class before I owned a gun with a rented 22LR.
Attachment 102091
Looked for videos on grip from people with military background and high level competitive shooting objective success.
Modeled grip off Shannon Smith videos because I was shooting a Glock.
Spent time with his videos and myself in front of a mirror until my grip looked like his.
Then spent time at the range with that grip shooting doubles.
Tested against an objective standard (NRA pistol).
Was too easy.
Did some work and then did FBI 50 round qual and was too easy.
So started competition shooting because the published standards were harder.
Looked through the available online training and picked Max Michel’s online Patreon program because he was Army Marksmanship and world champion and also had the kind of risk reducing philosophy and balance that resonated with me. I’m not a gambler. I learned a ton from him but mainly in the philosophy and strategy rather than the technical.
I did also learn technical gaming stuff from him in terms of atypical start positions I had not practiced (seated and table starts).
So that has been my philosophy. Pick people who have the background and objective success (different from participation credits) and who also have the style of presentation that resonate with me. I like calm so Shannon and Max are my preference to more labile personalities like Rob and Ben. But that part is personal preference only.