LL's "Almost Guaranteed to Work fixes for Gen4 Glock 9mm issues"

Not guaranteed to work.

Caveat emptor

Unload your weapon three times and then go to another room that doesn't have ammo in it before starting. I'm not liable for stuff you break nor if your Glock isn't 1000% reliable afterwards and therefore you die on the streets.

1. Install a 30274 ejector $7, even if your 9mm Glock isn't a Gen4.
2. Install a White Sound H.R.E.D $15
3. Polish the top and bottom horizontal surfaces of the extractor with something light like say toothpaste and this Dremel wheel. You want the extractor to slide in out and smoothly, like using cornstarch in a Zentai suit. Just a light polish.
4. Get the latest RSA (recoil spring assembly) by calling Glock's customer service or ordering online
5. Test fire. The best way to see if you've fixed the problem is to use weaker range ammo, not high powered NATO or carry ammo
6. If you still have the problem, grab an APEX extractor and install per the instructions. I recommend just ordering and installing this, the HRED, and the ejector (if you don't have it) along with checking with Glock to make sure you have the latest and greatest RSA (recoil spring adapter) in order to save yourself time.

These steps have worked for me and others I know. My Gen4 G17 gobbled up Wolf, Tula, Blazer, carry ammo, and WWB with aplomb and good ejection last weekend in the rain and sleet at the GreenOps Defensive Pistol I class.

Nice. Thanks for this. It's nice to have all this info in one place.

My 2012 Gen 4 17 ran great till I hit 7k rounds, at which point it started BTF and FTE. It already had the 30274 ejector. I actually followed step 4, followed by 2 and 3. This seems to have fixed my issue for now, gun is 100% with duty ammo? Still has occasional BTF with weaker 115 FMJ range ammo,

Thanks for posting this, LL. It's no secret that I'm into VP9's now, but in the near future may be employed with an agency requiring I change to the Glock. If I have trouble, your advice is what I will follow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HCM

My 2012 Gen 4 17 ran great till I hit 7k rounds, at which point it started BTF and FTE. It already had the 30274 ejector. I actually followed step 4, followed by 2 and 3. This seems to have fixed my issue for now, gun is 100% with duty ammo? Still has occasional BTF with weaker 115 FMJ range ammo,

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HCM, Was the original recoil spring assembly still in the gun when it started giving you BTFs and FTEs?

David's "Pretty Much Guaranteed to Work Fixes for Gen 4 Glock 9mm Issues"

1. Sell Glock.
2. Buy VP9, P320 or . . . .


;)

Srsly, Good sticky thread. Just havin' fun cuz someone was going to say it eventually, figured I'd be the first "that guy."

If all that fails...
http://www.vdmsr.com/2016/02/gen4-g19-issue-update.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by oldtexan

HCM, Was the original recoil spring assembly still in the gun when it started giving you BTFs and FTEs?

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Yes. That was the first thing I changed but the BTF and FTE continued. I believer 7500 rounds is the factory recommended life for the 9mm RSA.

Crap. And to think a G17 came home with me today.

Oh well. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NETim

Crap. And to think a G17 came home with me today.

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You never know. I have an original Gen4 17, the ones without the recess cutout for the recoil spring (in the slide). It runs great.

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/w...lSprings-1.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JV_

You never know. I have an original Gen4 17, the ones without the recess cutout for the recoil spring (in the slide). It runs great.

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/w...lSprings-1.jpg

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I have one of those too. It was one of the First ones to hit town back in 2011. 6800 rounds so far without issue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Best. title. ever.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JV_

You never know. I have an original Gen4 17, the ones without the recess cutout for the recoil spring (in the slide). It runs great.

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/w...lSprings-1.jpg

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Mine has the recess. Fairly recent Austrian gun. SN BAZXXXX

Tangential question - has anyone fixed BTF or erratic ejection in an earlier generation gun? If so, could you please detail the process if it differs from the OP? Thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JV_

You never know. I have an original Gen4 17, the ones without the recess cutout for the recoil spring (in the slide). It runs great.

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/w...lSprings-1.jpg

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I had one, it ran very poorly. My newer ones have been better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JV_

You never know. I have an original Gen4 17, the ones without the recess cutout for the recoil spring (in the slide). It runs great.

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/w...lSprings-1.jpg

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Mine is late 2011 production - I got it in January 2012. It has the cut out out in the slide nose for the recoil spring.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by guymontag

Tangential question - has anyone fixed BTF or erratic ejection in an earlier generation gun? If so, could you please detail the process if it differs from the OP? Thanks!

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LL's advice is solid, but one other thing to add:

JHC noticed more consistent ejection in guns with KKM drop-in barrels (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....n-flaws/page35). I took this information and immediately used it as a justification to buy a shiny silver KKM barrel of my own, and lo and behold, more consistent ejection.

Both of us were shooting Gen. 4s, but I'm assuming that you would see similar results in a previous generation. A side benefit would probably be increased mechanical accuracy, as my understanding is that the older guns tend to be less mechanically accurate than the Gen. 4s, and as a result tend to show a more noticeable improvement with an aftermarket barrel. Not sure if that is worth $165 to you, but it might help.

Depending on how old of a gun you have, I believe the Apex extractors will work in any gun with a 15 degree cut (as opposed to the really old 90 degree cuts, although I believe the factory can cut a 90 degree slide to 15 degrees if you send your slide in. I've never heard of someone trying to put an Apex extractor in a Gen. 2 gun (usually everyone is talking about making their Gen. 4s run like Gen. 2s...), but I would call Apex to see if there would be any issues.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by guymontag

Tangential question - has anyone fixed BTF or erratic ejection in an earlier generation gun? If so, could you please detail the process if it differs from the OP? Thanks!

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After a long and shitty "break-in," the early Gen4 G17 I had started running well after dropping in an H.R.E.D and polishing the extractor. It was sold shortly thereafter with full disclosure.

LL - Your solution is too complicated. Apparently, if you'd just leave the gun stock, and stop reading PF, your Glock will start working....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LittleLebowski

Not guaranteed to work.

Caveat emptor

Unload your weapon three times and then go to another room that doesn't have ammo in it before starting. I'm not liable for stuff you break nor if your Glock isn't 1000% reliable afterwards and therefore you die on the streets.

1. Install a 30274 ejector $7, even if your 9mm Glock isn't a Gen4.
2. Install a White Sound H.R.E.D $15
3. Polish the top and bottom horizontal surfaces of the extractor with something light like say toothpaste and this Dremel wheel. You want the extractor to slide in out and smoothly, like using cornstarch in a Zentai suit. Just a light polish.
4. Get the latest RSA (recoil spring assembly) by calling Glock's customer service or ordering online
5. Test fire. The best way to see if you've fixed the problem is to use weaker range ammo, not high powered NATO or carry ammo
6. If you still have the problem, grab an APEX extractor and install per the instructions. I recommend just ordering and installing this, the HRED, and the ejector (if you don't have it) along with checking with Glock to make sure you have the latest and greatest RSA (recoil spring adapter) in order to save yourself time.

These steps have worked for me and others I know. My Gen4 G17 gobbled up Wolf, Tula, Blazer, carry ammo, and WWB with aplomb and good ejection last weekend in the rain and sleet at the GreenOps Defensive Pistol I class.

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What do you guys think of using emery cloth to polish the innards? I am extremely new - and very cautious as a result, to use my Dremel, for fear of removing too much. I did my first Glock (30S) with emery cloth - gave it to a very experienced shooter, who then after dry firing it, asked me who did the trigger job.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 11B10

What do you guys think of using emery cloth to polish the innards? I am extremely new - and very cautious as a result, to use my Dremel, for fear of removing too much. I did my first Glock (30S) with emery cloth - gave it to a very experienced shooter, who then after dry firing it, asked me who did the trigger job.

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I think that what I recommended is extremely hard to take away too much material with. Alternatively to toothpaste, you can use automotive chrome polish but toothpaste on nylon bristles (as I recommended) is extremely light duty polishing.

The emperor is starting to look a little under-dressed to me.

LCI bearing / Non-LCI bearing?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 11B10

What do you guys think of using emery cloth to polish the innards? I am extremely new - and very cautious as a result, to use my Dremel, for fear of removing too much. I did my first Glock (30S) with emery cloth - gave it to a very experienced shooter, who then after dry firing it, asked me who did the trigger job.

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Emery cloth is fine.

Honestly, if you were that worried about it, I'd buy some Mothers or similar chrome polish and just polish it by hand with a nice cotton cloth.

As LL stated; it's pretty hard to impossible to remove any real material using toothpaste and a Dremel. It's also hard to remove any real material using the chrome polish and Dremel wheel, but it is possible.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I don't understand a willingness to polish parts but also having an aversion to aftermarket parts.

If you're going to modify the gun from a bone stock configuration, I don't see the polishing and replacement being all that different.

I have a question - is a failure to extract characteristic of these G4G19 issues? Not a stovepipe, but like this:

http://i.imgur.com/opE7Uox.jpg

Had 1 of those in the first 520 rounds through my brand new, new production G4G19. The round looked a little funky (Magtech 115gr, stupidly didn't take a picture), but I now wondering if I should put in an order for the HRED just in case. Ejection with the gun was typical glock mushy with some BTF with Wolf, but that's something that I get regularly even with older Gen 3 guns. The Magtech 115gr all ejected consistently to my 3-4 o'clock.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nephrology

I have a question - is a failure to extract characteristic of these G4G19 issues? Not a stovepipe, but like this:

http://i.imgur.com/opE7Uox.jpg

Had 1 of those in the first 520 rounds through my brand new, new production G4G19. The round looked a little funky (Magtech 115gr, stupidly didn't take a picture), but I now wondering if I should put in an order for the HRED just in case. Ejection with the gun was typical glock mushy with some BTF with Wolf, but that's something that I get regularly even with older Gen 3 guns. The Magtech 115gr all ejected consistently to my 3-4 o'clock.

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Oops, well, I just disassembled the slide and found that the EDP Spring wasn't fully seated on the EDP bar. Pushed it back into place and tested extractor tension with a spent case. Much firmer than it was before. Hoping that was the issue!

Agreed, best thread title EVER :cool:

My first Glock was a G17 Gen4 that I still have. It is early production bought as soon as I found one in a LGS. It would FTE about once every box of ammo. Getting the right RSA did not fix it. Then along came the new improved ejector. The gun has now run many thousands of rounds without a malfunction. I buy and run over 5,000 rounds of WWB through it a year. What year did the Gen 4 come out? I have also run a couple of thousand factory loaded JHP loads through it as well. Also, I hardly ever clean or lube it. I do not recommend running a dirty or dry pistol. I have a couple of G19 Gen 4 pistols that have yet to malfunction. There must be a reason that almost 2/3 of the LEO in the US carry Glocks. A G43 is my go to CCW that I never leave the house without. The currently produced new Glock pistols ought to work right out of the box.

My first Glock was a 2012 vintage G19 gen 4. Mostly reliable, though it did choke on some range-mandated remans (which my SIG P239 didn't have any issues with...) and had constant BTF. Already had updated RCA and ejector, installed apex extractor and BTF was much less frequent. Later went to install non-LCI SLB and found that after I installed the apex unit I had ('cause I'm really stupid) put the extractor plunger assembly in backwards. Still worked better in that configuration with the apex than it did out of the box.

LittleLebowski,

Do you also think it is beneficial to follow Apex's recommendation to install the Spring Load Bearing for Glock Model 17, 19, 26 and 34 - Glock Item # SP01176 ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NCmtnman

LittleLebowski,

Do you also think it is beneficial to follow Apex's recommendation to install the Spring Load Bearing for Glock Model 17, 19, 26 and 34 - Glock Item # SP01176 ?

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Definitely.

#1 on the list seems to have improved my Oct 2011 manufactured Gen 3 Glock 19 that was throwing BTF at about once every 1-2 magazines with the occasional stovepipe malfunction. Took it to Glock HQ last year since I live close, and they were nice enough to replace all the internals (besides the barrel), but that didn't fix anything. A few months after that, I saw some discussion of the 30274 ejector being a possible fix, so I bought a gen 4 trigger housing w/ 30274 ejector, swapped that ejector into my gen 3. Have only been able to test it in the past few weeks, but 400 rounds in, no more BTF. Not nearly enough rounds for me to trust that it's "fixed" enough for me to confidently carry, but this is progress.

Will proceed to #2 if the simple ejector swap doesn't turn out to be the complete fix for this pistol.

Had an interesting malfunction today with my Gen. 2 G19--a class 2 horizontal stovepipe that turned into a class 3. The gun is a 1996 BZKXXXUS gun that I came across unfired--I'm guessing that it sat in a guy's garage for the last couple of decades--it still had the factory gold grease, appropriately gunked up having sat around for almost 20 years.

I replaced all the springs in the gun, installed an Apex Tactical Ultimate Safety Plunger, gave it a thorough cleaning, and lubed it with Slip 2000 EWL as I do all my guns. Possibly noteworthy is that the the extractor held on to an AZoom snap cap with no issue--several of my Glocks, my HK USPc, and my long extractor SIG 226 will not hold the AZooms, but allow the case to slip out from under the extractor claw.

Tonight I fired the Gen. 2 G19 for the first time, using

Today I took it to the range for the first time. I was shooting MagTech 115 gr. FMJ, which I've had good success with in other weapons. Ejection was fairly consistent at around 4:30, with a few oddballs that ejected around 1:00 or so. No BTF. I was just thinking about how awesome the Gen. 2 frame was to shoot, and how it was nice to have a Glock with no BTF or other issues when I loaded my last magazine (a lightly-used 15-round factory magazine that had been reliable in other guns, and was loaded with 14 rounds), fired the first round (round 86), and got this malfunction:

Attachment 6935

Attachment 6936

Since I was vetting a new pistol, I didn't immediately clear the malfunction, but stopped to take a look at it and snap a few pics. It looked like a typical horizontal stovepipe. After taking pictures I tired to clear it as I usually would with a vigorous "tap, roll, rack," but that didn't solve the problem. Instead I ended up with this:

Attachment 6937

The gun tried to feed the next live round (round #2 in the magazine), but failed to eject the empty case from round #1. Recognizing the "double feed," I locked the slide back, but the empty case remained in place, held against the breach face by the extractor claw. I shook the gun lightly and was able to get the live round out of the chamber, but I had to manipulate the empty case out from under the extractor claw. I reloaded the live round, and fired the remainder of the magazine without issue.

It seemed to me that, unlike some of the Gen. 4 issues that come up, this was the result of an extractor that was holding the spent case too tightly, not one that was holding it too loosely. When I installed the Apex plunger, I noticed that the extractor did not drop free when the plunger was depressed, so tonight I dressed it slightly using toothpaste as a polishing compound. It still does not drop completely free, but it does move easier than it did before. I may or may not get to shoot it again this weekend. If I do I'll try to run something weak like CCI/Blazer or Fiocchi.

What would the next step be? Should I install a HRED/30274? Shoot it with the lightly dressed extractor first? Write this off as "break-in?" Apologize to my HK for straying, and promise that it meant nothing? Right now my gut says that dressing the extractor and a 30274 would be my best bets, but I'm open to suggestions.

The words "1996" and "glock 19" rattled something loose.

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/phase3.html

I vaguely remember this being a thing, but by the late 90s I don't think it was common knowledge. I want to say I heard about it on rec.guns from Darrel Mulroy in the course of an internet argument.

You see, there was no "pistol-forum.com" back then. What we had was the newsgroups (or "the groups" we would sometimes call them, because the Kaiser stole the word "news") and a bit later on glocktalk.com, which I think was `98. The important thing was I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time...

Anyway, the NYPD had some fairly major issues with their gen 2 Glock 19s. What your pics show is an almost perfect replication of that. I don't remember what the resolution was.

The good ole days weren't always so good.

I definitely remember the issue as reported by NYPD with the G19 in the 90's. Just don't recall whether the issue was range ammo, an extractor that got changed in design, or something else.

Had a bunch of BTF today with my G4G19 (Serial #BBBX---). Mostly with Magtech 115gr but occasionally with the wolf. Honestly it doesn't bother me as long as i am not getting stovepipes but I ordered an HRED as a precaution. Gun already has newest ejector/RSA, so hopefully the HRED cleans it up. Extractor seems to slip in and out of the channel just fine but I gave it a few gentle passes with a light file, just to break down any edges. We'll see how it does when I shoot some JHPs through in on Monday.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jh9

The words "1996" and "glock 19" rattled something loose.

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/phase3.html

I vaguely remember this being a thing, but by the late 90s I don't think it was common knowledge. I want to say I heard about it on rec.guns from Darrel Mulroy in the course of an internet argument.

You see, there was no "pistol-forum.com" back then. What we had was the newsgroups (or "the groups" we would sometimes call them, because the Kaiser stole the word "news") and a bit later on glocktalk.com, which I think was `98. The important thing was I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time...

Anyway, the NYPD had some fairly major issues with their gen 2 Glock 19s. What your pics show is an almost perfect replication of that. I don't remember what the resolution was.

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Thanks for that--I completely spaced on the Phase 3 issue when I posted. I did give the extractor a very light polish, and now it moves more freely (but does not drop out completely without manipulation), and I'm going to try the 30274. If that doesn't work I'll look to swapping the extractor next. I'm not sure the HRED would help right now because the issue with my gun seems to be too MUCH extractor tension, not too little. I'll keep the forum updated as I go.

Related question - does anyone know if the White Sound HRED might pre-dispose to malfunctions? Anyone had problems with it inducing FTEs by any chance?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GJM

I definitely remember the issue as reported by NYPD with the G19 in the 90's. Just don't recall whether the issue was range ammo, an extractor that got changed in design, or something else.

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No idea. The artcle (written by a retired NYPD lieutenant; don't recognize the name) says going from their Winchester loaded mild practice ammo to +P helped but the issue didn't go away.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jck397

Thanks for that--I completely spaced on the Phase 3 issue when I posted. I did give the extractor a very light polish, and now it moves more freely (but does not drop out completely without manipulation), and I'm going to try the 30274. If that doesn't work I'll look to swapping the extractor next. I'm not sure the HRED would help right now because the issue with my gun seems to be too MUCH extractor tension, not too little. I'll keep the forum updated as I go.

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Midway has a new Glock EDP spring for $3.50... I wonder how it compares in strength to the `96 vintage part. Maybe they reduced the spring tension on the EDP as one of the numerous rolling 'product improvements' to get the guns to work better with lighter loaded ammo?

I don't know enough about Glock product history to say.