For those who shoot RMR's I need help correcting an issue please.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UNK

Where do you prefer your rear sight. In front of or behind the RMR.

---

I've tried both and it doesn't matter to me, there is no difference in speed that I could see.

I'd recommend people stick with rear sights in original positions, unless it just doesn't work like in the case of the T1 you cannot have the rear sight in the back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by voodoo_man

The other way is to figure out a way to index shoot and find your dot during recoil. At the Modern Samurai Class, this varied between, using the rmr itself as an index, the backplate or the "horns" of the rmr to cut the target in half. Then when you are shooting it will be easier to find the dot in recoil as you probably have more reps of finding the dot in recoil than in presentation.

---

I would not recommend doing this at all unless your target is about 3 yds away. Scott is a friend of mine, but this was either misinterpreted or it's misguided advice. Watch any GM level open shooter draw to a low percentage shot. None of them have backup irons on their guns but they somehow manage to draw, find the dot, and hit low percentage shots faster than anyone shooting irons. They do this because they've developed the muscle memory and index to bring the dot to their point of aim every time.

Example (open draw to a small plate): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLVuER5uPNk

Your presentation is off.

I am willing to bet that when you draw an iron sight gun your front sight is ever so slightly high in the notch, you either don't notice the issue or you are correcting it as the front sight comes into your peripheral. The RMR exaggerates the misalignment. Try drawing an iron gun and pay very close attention to your front sight (and be honest with yourself) to see if that is the case. I know it is with me.

I have found almost no time difference from the draw to first shot with irons vs RMR even when the dot is "gone" because I take the same amount of time to correct my iron alignment as i do finding the dot on shots that require it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gio

I would not recommend doing this at all unless your target is about 3 yds away. Scott is a friend of mine, but this was either misinterpreted or it's misguided advice. Watch any GM level open shooter draw to a low percentage shot. None of them have backup irons on their guns but they somehow manage to draw, find the dot, and hit low percentage shots faster than anyone shooting irons. They do this because they've developed the muscle memory and index to bring the dot to their point of aim every time.

Example (open draw to a small plate): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLVuER5uPNk

---

The vid of JJ is at Pro Gun in Nevada, where I shoot matches a few times a month throughout the winter, so I recognize those targets and arrays!

Have the exact same issue when I go Ling between regular range time and dry fire. G19.4+RMR. The stupid Glock hump always points high for me. With irons there is always a reference visible. The RMR not so much. The cone where the dot can be seen is narrow so it’s easy to have to hunt.

Practice SLOW as molasses to memorize the feel and then rinse and repeat a gazillion times going ever so faster and faster...

Or find an optic ready gun that points better. I’m thinking if SW makes the MP 2.0 compact available with a CORE slide I’ll give it a whirl.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TAZ

Have the exact same issue when I go Ling between regular range time and dry fire. G19.4+RMR. The stupid Glock hump always points high for me. With irons there is always a reference visible. The RMR not so much. The cone where the dot can be seen is narrow so it’s easy to have to hunt.

Practice SLOW as molasses to memorize the feel and then rinse and repeat a gazillion times going ever so faster and faster...

Or find an optic ready gun that points better. I’m thinking if SW makes the MP 2.0 compact available with a CORE slide I’ll give it a whirl.

---

Q5

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gio

I would not recommend doing this at all unless your target is about 3 yds away. Scott is a friend of mine, but this was either misinterpreted or it's misguided advice. Watch any GM level open shooter draw to a low percentage shot. None of them have backup irons on their guns but they somehow manage to draw, find the dot, and hit low percentage shots faster than anyone shooting irons. They do this because they've developed the muscle memory and index to bring the dot to their point of aim every time.

Example (open draw to a small plate): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLVuER5uPNk

---

Right, please quote me where I stated to do this at 25 yards?

Obviously this is to be done in closer distances, that goes without saying.

I do not care much for any type of competition, so it does not matter to me what a GM or whatever has to say about something - I am talking about real world application.

Also, there is no such thing as muscle memory - Scott even said this in that class.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by voodoo_man

Right, please quote me where I stated to do this at 25 yards?

Obviously this is to be done in closer distances, that goes without saying.

I do not care much for any type of competition, so it does not matter to me what a GM or whatever has to say about something - I am talking about real world application.

Also, there is no such thing as muscle memory - Scott even said this in that class.

---

You didn't specify a distance, and this technique gets irresponsible a lot closer than 25 yds.

The real world application of picking up a dot at speed has been mastered by competition shooters, so I think it behooves someone looking for "real world application" of red dot use to study what the best shooters in the world do. I do both, and from my first hand experience, it's worth paying attention to what the competitive shooters are doing when it comes to shooting skill and technique because they're doing it a lot better.

Muscle memory defined: the ability to reproduce a particular movement without conscious thought, acquired as a result of frequent repetition of that movement. As it applies to this debate, muscle memory is developing the sub-conscious ability to index your red dot on the draw without having to consciously hunt for the dot. It's real.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gio

You didn't specify a distance, and this technique gets irresponsible a lot closer than 25 yds.

The real world application of picking up a dot at speed has been mastered by competition shooters, so I think it behooves someone looking for "real world application" of red dot use to study what the best shooters in the world do. I do both, and from my first hand experience, it's worth paying attention to what the competitive shooters are doing when it comes to shooting skill and technique because they're doing it a lot better.

Muscle memory defined: the ability to reproduce a particular movement without conscious thought, acquired as a result of frequent repetition of that movement. As it applies to this debate, muscle memory is developing the sub-conscious ability to index your red dot on the draw without having to consciously hunt for the dot. It's real.

---

You are right, I did not define a distance, but it did not stop you from attempting to make a statement of ill intent from my posts, using words like "misinterpreted" and "misguided." You were incorrect in those statements.

I will not rehash the competition vs real world debate, I made my stance clear, as many have so lets not waste each other's time.

Scott, your friend, has a different definition of "muscle memory" so you should probably figure that whole thing out before investing in a statement.

The only difference between a red dot and iron sights, is the red dot requires a more precise index, where iron sights allow you to get away with more imperfections in your index. In that way, the red dot is a fantastic training aid in improving index (and trigger control). Solving the dot presentation issue will improve your iron sight index as well.