Federal's newish .30 Super, aka a 'spicier' 7.65x20mm Longue

People seem to like to debate terminal ballistics so this provides that opportunity. The 40 versus 9th thing is getting old.

I think the biggest appeal as mentioned up thread is adequate terminal performance with two more rounds. Because Lord knows that if you have no skill throwing more lead will fix that.

There is no magic...... Or free lunch.... in order to get of this type of terminal performance The platforms are going to be just as big and just as heavy as any other service pistol.


45 gap, .357 Sig,. .356 S&W, FN 5.7, ______.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stephanie B

The only positive that I can think of is that this round may offer 9mm equivalent performance for use in places where "military cartridges" are forbidden for civilian use.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by octagon

With Italy doing away with that law what other countries have prohibited military calibers and handgun ownership of significance?

---

I have no idea. I've some dim memory that a lot of the nations south of us do so. Isn't that why .38 Super was so popular in Mexico?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by willie

I would have said that the bullet would lack enough momentum to penetrate to published depth after expanding to .53.
In the event expansion failed to occur, the tiny bullet would be a needle passing through its target.

---

The potential is there despite the diminutive package. As long as a bullet possesses adequate post-impact sectional density and enough momentum (velocity) sufficient penetration occurs.

''Plugging in'' the recovered expansion diameter, retained mass, and impact velocity from Federal's ''heavy clothing'' test data to the current mathematical bullet penetration models' their predictions confirm Federal's DoP = 15½''—

Q-model: 14.91 inches
mTHOR: 14.58 inches
MacPherson WTI: 14.06 inches

If the 0.312'' 115-grain HST doesn't expand, yep, lots of soft tissue penetration just as with any other FMJFP regardless of caliber—

Q-model: 37.82 inches
mTHOR: 37.77 inches
MacPherson WTI: 37.68 inches

Yes, back in Skeeter Skelton's day. As I understand it now, .380 or .38 Special are as powerful as you can legally get for private use in Mexico. I think India limits private citizens to .32 but I doubt Vista and S&W are looking at the market in the subcontinent.

I think it is just something to sell, anything else is just advertising and justification. While most of us complain about resources diverted from common calibers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the Schwartz

The potential is there despite the diminutive package. As long as a bullet possesses adequate post-impact sectional density and enough momentum (velocity) sufficient penetration occurs....

---

Not sure there is much to be gained compared to my .32 ACP +P handload with .309" diameter Hornady 90-grain XTP with 3 grains of AutoComp, except for greater muzzle blast and flash, being less controllable from a small pocket pistol with barrel shorter than 10 cm and weighing less than 500g. You have the velocity and expansion data for that load. Would be nice to see a side-by-side comparison.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Outpost75

Not sure there is much to be gained compared to my .32 ACP +P handload with .309" diameter Hornady 90-grain XTP with 3 grains of AutoComp, except for greater muzzle blast and flash, being less controllable from a small pocket pistol with barrel shorter than 10 cm and weighing less than 500g. You have the velocity and expansion data for that load. Would be nice to see a side-by-side comparison.

---

You run the .309 in a .312 groove? How is accuracy?

From the good old days:

.38 WCF is really a .40

.38 Special is really a .36 (rounding a bit)

.44 Magnum is really a .43 (again, rounding)

So .30 Super is really a .31?

We appear to need a way to identify the ammo-geeks :o

Bart Noir
No! It is not called the .45 AARP!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OlongJohnson

You run the .309 in a .312 groove? How is accuracy?

---

The .309 gets shot in barrels of .310 groove or less, the .312 if barrel over .310. I collect .32 ACP pistols and groove diameters run all over the map. The Berettas, 1903 Colts and SIG P230 all shot 8-shot magazine dumps of 10cm or less at 25 metres off bags using correct bullets which fit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the Schwartz

The potential is there despite the diminutive package. As long as a bullet possesses adequate post-impact sectional density and enough momentum (velocity) sufficient penetration occurs.

''Plugging in'' the recovered expansion diameter, retained mass, and impact velocity from Federal's ''heavy clothing'' test data to the current mathematical bullet penetration models' their predictions confirm Federal's DoP = 15½''—

Q-model: 14.91 inches
mTHOR: 14.58 inches
MacPherson WTI: 14.06 inches

If the 0.312'' 115-grain HST doesn't expand, yep, lots of soft tissue penetration just as with any other FMJFP regardless of caliber—

Q-model: 37.82 inches
mTHOR: 37.77 inches
MacPherson WTI: 37.68 inches

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Outpost75

Not sure there is much to be gained compared to my .32 ACP +P handload with .309" diameter Hornady 90-grain XTP with 3 grains of AutoComp, except for greater muzzle blast and flash, being less controllable from a small pocket pistol with barrel shorter than 10 cm and weighing less than 500g. You have the velocity and expansion data for that load. Would be nice to see a side-by-side comparison.

---

Here is the side-by-side assessment of the two using both the Q-model and the mTHOR algorithm...


.32ACP +P (handload)
Projectile: Hornady 90-grain XTP; 0.309''
Propellant: 3 grains of AutoComp
Firearm: Beretta M1935, 7.⁶⁵ Brevettata (1944)
Barrel: 3.4'' (86.4mm)

D_x= 0.40''
M= 90 grains
V= 960 fps

Q-model
DoP: 18.47 inches
Wound Mass: 1.14 ounces
Wound Volume: 1.90 in³
US Army BRL (Sturdivan, 1968) P_[I/H]: 23.73%

mTHOR
DoP: 16.47 inches
Wound Mass: 1.02 ounces
Wound Volume: 1.70 in³

=====

.30 Super Carry 115-grain HST JHP
Propellant: factory
Firearm: S&W^® Shield™ EZ^®
Barrel: 3.675'' (93.3mm)

D_x= 0.53''
M= 115 grains
V= 1,250 fps

Q-model
DoP: 14.91 inches
Wound Mass: 1.62 ounces
Wound Volume: 2.69 in³
US Army BRL (Sturdivan, 1968) P_[I/H]: 43.96%

mTHOR
DoP: 14.58 inches
Wound Mass: 1.58 ounces
Wound Volume: 2.63 in³

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the Schwartz

The .30 Super 100-grain FMJ @ 1,250 fps promises to offer tremendous penetration in the 31 - 34 inch range unless it yaws and overturns.

What are the P-F collective's thoughts on this latest offering from Federal?

---

I'm sure it works as advertised, but WHY???

The recoil impulse of a .30 Super 100 gr bullet at 1,250 fps is about 92% that of a 9x19 Para 124 gr @ 1,100 fps out of a short barrel. This basically means that barrel+slide mass have to be pretty close too in a recoil operated gun, there is no such thing as a free lunch.

To gain a minuscule amount of sectional densitiy and one extra round, and perhaps a little lighter gun?

Hard pass for me, and I don't see it surviving in the market.