Using an AR in .22 as part of a training program

Random thoughts/questions.

I have also been looking hard at 22 rifles. I understand the obvious reasons for selecting an AR pattern 22. But in @GJM case, wouldn’t a 10/22 accomplish the same thing? It’s a reliable well supported 22 capable of hosting an optic.

The HK 416-22 sounded promising when it was announced but I haven’t heard anything about it or found one for sale. Anyone with experience with one? I like the idea of a rifle with a little more weight for training.

Does anyone make an MPX style 22?

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Originally Posted by MGW

The HK 416-22 sounded promising when it was announced but I haven’t heard anything about it or found one for sale. Anyone with experience with one? I like the idea of a rifle with a little more weight for training.

Does anyone make an MPX style 22?

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I would stay away. They are a Umarex design and share nothing other than shape form and somewhat function with the AR. The Colt branded M4 and M16 are also Umarex.

If you can find a used Sig 522 it will be decent and it has the weight you are looking for.

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Originally Posted by MGW

Random thoughts/questions.

I have also been looking hard at 22 rifles. I understand the obvious reasons for selecting an AR pattern 22. But in @GJM case, wouldn’t a 10/22 accomplish the same thing? It’s a reliable well supported 22 capable of hosting an optic.

The HK 416-22 sounded promising when it was announced but I haven’t heard anything about it or found one for sale. Anyone with experience with one? I like the idea of a rifle with a little more weight for training.

Does anyone make an MPX style 22?

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As long as you can transition it, and split quickly (meaning faster than with your pistol for a given array), it should work since the goal is to work at a faster speed. I personally don’t shoot a 10-22 as fast as an AR pattern carbine, so that is why I chose what I did. My MP15-22 is down waiting a Volquartsen extractor, so I grabbed my MPX today. I definitely shoot faster with the pistol when I start with the carbine, so while I would rather shoot .22, it is worth the investment of 9mm rounds for me, if no .22 is available.

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Originally Posted by Dan Lehr

Right now they seem to be vaporware, but have you considered trying the Nelson Precision slide for a G44 to use a rimfire pistol? Wouldn't the lack of recoil and lighter weight equal faster transitions and give you that feeling of impatience you mentioned when using your regular pistol?

https://www.nelsonprecisionmfg.com/p...em-style-slide

Article: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...ck-44-pistols/

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They exist.

@Lon has one - thread here: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....k-44-RMR-slide

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Originally Posted by MGW

Random thoughts/questions.

I have also been looking hard at 22 rifles. I understand the obvious reasons for selecting an AR pattern 22. But in @GJM case, wouldn’t a 10/22 accomplish the same thing? It’s a reliable well supported 22 capable of hosting an optic.

The HK 416-22 sounded promising when it was announced but I haven’t heard anything about it or found one for sale. Anyone with experience with one? I like the idea of a rifle with a little more weight for training.

Does anyone make an MPX style 22?

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Going in reverse order, one of the MPX's biggest selling points is it uses the AR manual of arms so no real advantage to a .22 version vs an AR-22. They do make an airgun version.

All AR pattern .22s are not created equal. The HK 416-22 is not an HK, it's a rebranded Umarex functionally the same as the Colt, Hammerli and other Umarex clones. They are crap and do not function like a real AR so they are of little value as trainers.

10/22s IME are not as reliable or omnivorous as they are purported to be. by the time you add a magpul or PG stock you are back up to the price of a decent AR 22.

If you want more weight for training than a 15-22 provides, the options are dedicated a CMMG or PSA upper or the Tippman .22 AR. With the CMMG /PSA you have the option of running the CMMG/Blackdog pattern mags or running the 15-22 mags using a magwell adaptor from boonie packer.

At one time I did a lot of training with a CMMG 22 conversion kit in my AR. It ran just as reliable as a 10/22 or any other semi-auto 22 rifle. Accuracy was pretty similar to 55 FMJ inside of 50 yards and I could hit a 4" spinner with it at 100 using Federal Automatch.

That stopped when 22LR got hard to find during the last panic and did more with my PCC. The one thing I noticed is that it really improved my trigger speed.

I bought my Atchisson conversion for the AR-15 in 1982 from Bro-Caliber International in Cincinnati. It was very rough and didn't work very well. Based on a 1985 article in SOLDIER OF FORTUNE Magazine I sent my conversion unit off to John Norrell Arms (now in Little Rock, Arkansas) and paid him almost $300 to tune it up so it would work. IT WAS MONEY WELL SPENT! As long as I keep the unit reasonably clean and well lubed and use good ammo, it'll shoot all day every day. (www,johnnorrellarms.com) (I don't know if he still adjusts conversion units like that or not . . . )

In late 2008 I bought a Smith & Wesson 15-22 rifle. I had a very early one, and I had to ship it back to the factory to get the extractor replaced. I've found it to be very reliable and not ammo sensitive at all. I have a Vortex Crossfire RDS scope to mount on it -- maybe this week yet.

I find using .22 conversions or equivalents for both handgun and rifle to be very useful BUT I only use them for basic skill maintenance and recreational shooting. I shoot them a lot on accuracy drills at 50 feet on an indoor range, particularly in the winter. With the AR I use a 1/3rd scale IPSC target I found on the net.

A couple people in my gun club have bought the Tippman Arms AR-15 type rifles in .22 and they really like them, but I haven't had a chance to fire one yet.

I've started two youth shooters with a M&P 15-22 over the years. It wears a cheap Primary Arms red dot sight that has performed perfectly. I've found it very reliable - mostly using Federal bulk pack - but more recently Aguila Super Extra. I have check the bolt face with the free gauge from S&W and it is within spec. Honestly I had more issues with inconsistent ammunition than I've had with the rifle. It's a great way to introduce the AR pattern rifle - it has allowed for a seamless transition for new shooters to the AR15 and MPX. All the controls are in the right places. It is much lighter - which is a benefit with kids but (like the G44) makes it an imperfect analog to the real thing. No free lunch.

Despite the difference in weight, I think there is value in practicing presentations from the ready with the 15-22.

I have been continuing to use a .22 carbine as a regular part of my pistol training. I believe it is helping me with eye and finger speed, and it also allows me to experiment with various things, like how fast I can transition on steel, without burning up hundreds of 9mm rounds.

I got a S&W M&P 15-22 sixteen inch carbine and a Tippman M4 pistol with a brace. Just handling them, I favored the M&P, and expected that would be my go to training .22. Here they are.

Attachment 65864

When I shot both initially, I slightly preferred the little Tippman, which was a surprise. To try to sort things out, I did three different benchmarking sessions, shooting identical drills, and on each day the Tippman was easier for me to shoot fast/accurately. So now I have it set up in a little case with four mags that I load at home, so I don’t have to take that time at the range.

Attachment 65865

Next week, I have a sixteen inch Tippman arriving, and it will be interesting to figure out how much of what I perceive is the Tippman and what might relate to barrel length.

I have been using 40 grain CCI mini mags with both, and both guns function well.