repping drills vs. fun rolling

So I've got about 9 cumulative months of BJJ training over 6 years at 4 different schools. So ya, definitely a lot of treading water. I've perpetually been the new guy (moved around for work a lot) and nothing has really stuck.

You know that old saying about someone with 20 years experience vs. someone with 1 year of experience x 20? :p So ya, definitely zero stripe white belt limbo.

Not sure if my brain isn't working as fast or as well as that of a younger pup, but the nuances of technique just don't come naturally to me.

I've got good body awareness, good frames, and good neck defense, but no real solid techniques that I've committed to muscle memory.

The thing is, I really *enjoy* the rolling portion of class and just like the tussle and the struggle. I like open mats where we just plain roll and swap partners and kinda go for it. Fellow white belts I can hang with, usually my only finishing move is a kimura from mount. Color belts I just scramble around with 'til the buzzer, depending on how much they feel like humoring me.

I tell myself that mat time "in general" will lead to improvement, but obviously I know that focused attention on skills is the better path.

Figured since this was a new sub-forum we could generate a variety of topics. Just wondering what people's thoughts were on this type of thing.

I think it’s good to have an open mat once per week where you literally just roll for 1-2 hours straight.

However, I think you need several other sessions primarily aimed at drilling the basic techniques. Can you seamlessly work through a Kimura from guard to a guillotine, to an armbar, triangle, omoplata? Scissor sweep, Kimura sweep, butterfly guard, proper feet on hip setup to armbar from guard? How about your transitions from side control, North/south, Mount, knee on belly? Are you able to defend from half guard and regain your guard effectively? How about when you are mounted? Do you thrash around randomly or do you work on a knee/elbow escape? The magic happens when all of these have been drilled so much that your body just flows.

It would be like picking up a guitar and randomly trying to jam out because it’s more fun than learning how to play. I am not sure how productive that would be.

I was the only professional fighter at my main gym who took the level one BJJ classes. The other guys thought they were too good for it and found drilling the basics to be boring. Well, I was also the most successful fighter of our team, so there’s that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GAP

Can you seamlessly work through a Kimura from guard to a guillotine, to an armbar, triangle, omoplata?

---

Short answer, no, but your question got me off searching the youtubes, and found this progression sequence drill:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ0DhUwvq7Y

How's it look?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chain

Short answer, no, but your question got me off searching the youtubes, and found this progression sequence drill:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ0DhUwvq7Y

How's it look?

---

Yep - and drills like that are valuable because you learn how the submissions link together when they are defended.

That’s where differences between a blue and a purple belt become apparent when rolling. The blue can tap you with an armbar, but if it fails you are in a scramble. The purple is using it to trap you into an omoplata, three submissions down the road.

There are so many specifics to each of those submissions. It will be important to have each one taught to you by an instructor, first. You do not want to drill sloppy technique into muscle memory.

If you are interested in doing something like this, show up early to a class and discuss with your instructor 1:1 and ask if it is a possibility.

You can do partner drills like this with transitions, too. A normal practice for us would be to learn a couple of techniques, then do a few drilling exercises like this one, then go into rolling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chain

So I've got about 9 cumulative months of BJJ training over 6 years at 4 different schools. So ya, definitely a lot of treading water. I've perpetually been the new guy (moved around for work a lot) and nothing has really stuck.

You know that old saying about someone with 20 years experience vs. someone with 1 year of experience x 20? :p So ya, definitely zero stripe white belt limbo.

Not sure if my brain isn't working as fast or as well as that of a younger pup, but the nuances of technique just don't come naturally to me.

I've got good body awareness, good frames, and good neck defense, but no real solid techniques that I've committed to muscle memory.

The thing is, I really *enjoy* the rolling portion of class and just like the tussle and the struggle. I like open mats where we just plain roll and swap partners and kinda go for it. Fellow white belts I can hang with, usually my only finishing move is a kimura from mount. Color belts I just scramble around with 'til the buzzer, depending on how much they feel like humoring me.

I tell myself that mat time "in general" will lead to improvement, but obviously I know that focused attention on skills is the better path.

Figured since this was a new sub-forum we could generate a variety of topics. Just wondering what people's thoughts were on this type of thing.

---

From a fellow WB, I feel your pain. Some random thoughts:

I try and video one move each class (without beig disruptive) to review later. Otherwise my retention is pretty poor.

Repping drills is the part of my game I have the most control over. Meaning I don't need a partner to learn the mechanics and I can do this outside of class. I should to do this at least weekly, but with a more than full time job, lifting, cardio, stretching, DF & LF blah, blah. blah it doesn't always happen.

Learning a few (or one) move really, really well from each position is my current goal.

Trying to execute them during rolling is a critical part of the learning curve for me. If it doesn't work, why?

The struggle is real.....

Hoping to learn from others in this forum that have been down this path.

Positional sparring is your best friend. I am continually shocked that more people either don't do it, or only give it lip service and just go through the motions when doing it.

Positional sparring is rolling but only in a specific parameter. For example, you start mounted on your partner. Your job is to maintain mount and get a submission. Not switching positions or anything else, just hold mount and get a tap. The guy on bottom's job is to not tap and get to guard, get to his knees, or reverse. If either side achieves their goal, they stop the movement, switch roles, and then continue. What this does is take away the pressure of having to work everything and lets you focus on very specific moves. You get to really hammer home a move or two and build the ability to truly own the technique and having it handy to use at an almost subconscious level.

The typical noob problem is this - you are trying to do a hundred different actions and in the heat of a full roll you cannot remember any of it. So you drill stuff for a while and then try to apply it. But the issue is that the move(s) you want to do, never come up. For example, you are working a guard pass, but the partner you are rolling against is good enough to put you on the bottom so you don't ever get to work the pass! So there is this vast gulf between the drill and the roll. This is where positional sparring comes into play. You can work guard play for multiple rounds so you get to work the pass, but unlike drilling where you never have to figure out how to do it when the guy is not letting you, you get to do it against true resistance. THIS is where learning occurs.

After 30 years of BJJ, I can get most of my learning in while rolling. It is just is that way after long enough on the mat. Without that time put it, you should spend the majority of your training time doing positional sparring.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cecil Burch

Positional sparring is your best friend. I am continually shocked that more people either don't do it, or only give it lip service and just go through the motions when doing it.

---

I LOVE positional sparring. I would use it in MMA practices too, where we could introduce light striking into our grappling and takedowns off the cage. In BJJ, I usually had it bleed over into actual rolling where my opponent would start the round by having side-control or mount.

An important point you mention is about not just “going through the motions.” I can’t count how many training partners I’ve had over the years where they provide no resistance or feel like a dead fish. I would stop mid-Drill and basically tell them to train like they plan to fight. You can train with intensity in a safe manner, you do not have to go spastic and act in a wild manner. The number of half-assed, noodle-legged armbars... man, it drives me freaking nuts.

If I could add anything, I would say don’t worry about that stuff. Just enjoy the white belt stage and learning. Focus on good movement and defense. The other stuff will come naturally as you progress and learn. I always tell friends and family that are just getting into training to just relax, have fun, and enjoy the process. I tell them don’t put pressure on yourself to get good or pride yourself on tapping others. If you have a good instructor and program you are naturally going to advance and get good if you stick with it. At a certain point in your training when you have advanced beyond the novice stage you will naturally know your weak areas and be able to focus on them. Drilling has its place and can help to reinforce a technique. Rolling is always the most fun and what everyone wants to do.

Cecil hit the nail on the head again with positional training. I think it is the hardest most rewarding type of sparring. This is were you get “good” at jiu jitsu. You will realize that the techniques you learned in class are the basic foundation and that you need to figure out how to correctly employ that technique. Everyone’s body and movement is different. This is were you hone that technique and adapt it you and your opponents and start to master it. Work on the areas you need too( which frankly everyone has areas that needs work)and over time your technique and skill will be a lot more advanced then the guy who just rolls in open matt.


I think you need to have a good combination of these things(learning the techniques, drilling, positional sparring and regular sparring). Mobility and flexibility and general health and fitness also are important aspects as well.