I’ll just put this here...
No affiliation with the organization, airline, or FAMs...
Sorry for the resolution... it’s the highest I could upload.
Attachment 59500
Printable View
I’ll just put this here...
No affiliation with the organization, airline, or FAMs...
Sorry for the resolution... it’s the highest I could upload.
Attachment 59500
For those old enough, do you remember the rules governing the use of the American Flag! It was technically against the law to:
Not take the flag down in the rain
Leave up over night unless it was illuminated
Never let it touch the ground
Not use the symbol partially, I.E. full flag in Flags, Pins etc.
Not have the Flag printing on clothing.
So if you are a old timer who respects the flag, you should not have it covering your mouth.
Bob
Frontier Airlines do you say? Did they issue a statement on this?
Looks like Frontier is off my list of potential airlines.
Inexcusable that they'd do that at all, let alone to a Federal Air Marshal.
The flag itself is not to be used *as* clothing, or repurposed into a garment. The printed or sewn image of the US flag is 100% OK on clothing, especially uniforms.
Sad.
I have a few friends at Frontier who are patriotic Americans of the highest order, it is sad how the actions of a few bad employees can make a whole group look bad.
It earlier times, I’m sure the airline would apologize and discipline the workers involved - today not so much.
I will add that it takes a particularly miserable fucktard of a gate agent to pull this kind of attitude with a FAM.
This is on the lower end of my give-a-shit-list, and I'm willing to danger a monetary bet that the FAM is question is kind of a douchebag.
I actually looked into that when I got a flagpole, because that's what I always thought. Weather-resistant materials are considered acceptable to fly in the rain.
https://www.legion.org/flag/faq
Well, I remember this from Viet Nam days. One of the Chicago 7 wears an American Flag shirt on TV for an interview. People go nuts. Next day, Roy Rogers wears the same shirt on a country western TV special. I wore a Flag T-shirt to the department photo a few years ago. Probably be beheaded today.
Lots of flags in my new neighborhood for the 4th. Had to buy one. Some still have them up.
Who objects to the flag bikinis? Not I.
No, the so called Flag Code (Title 4, Sections 1 through 10, of the US Code) is merely advisory, and there are no penalties for not following the guidelines. Meaning it isn't "against the law," to do those things you listed. At least not in the common use of that term, which most people consider means a crime that is punishable.
Frontier says the gate agent rejected the mask because it was a neck gaiter and that it had nothing to do with the flag. They do allow neck gaiters, but the policy had changed a lot and they claim the gate agent was confused.
Screenshot of their reply:
Attachment 59534
Frontier's response does not make logical sense, as according to the NAPO letter the FAM did put on the mask supplied by Frontier and then re-applied the original flag mask/gaiter on top, but was still denied boarding. If it was simply an issue of the flag mask/gaiter not being the correct type according to Frontier's policy, then wearing the flag mask/gaiter over the top of the mask supplied by Frontier should have resolved the issue....
In a time when everyone is offended, and has to tell everyone else they're offended, you're an outlier.
Gate agent is offended by mask, FAM is offended he can't wear his mask, and people here are offended that said incident occurred.
If I were a FAM, and the gate agent didn't like something about me, I'd make as little fuss as possible so I could continue my job, which is to protect passengers, not get offended.
I was thinking along these lines. When acting in an official capacity, especially given the nature of the FAM job description, successful completion of the mission takes priority over offense. There is a real need to be the "gray man" in that role. I too am offended by entities that ban displays of patriotism/American pride but permit displays of subversive/anti-American symbology. But perhaps, since the FAM was on a mission, it would have been better to remain low profile by not wearing things that trigger the "woke" and avoiding drawing attention to himself. Sometimes you gotta have a little flex to blend and get the job done.
And yes, the airlines response is BS but so is their underlying policy. I'm guessing that their US, "N numbered" airframe has an American flag decal somewhere on its skin.
https://www.fox29.com/news/frontier-...ark-15-flights
Look just aft of the registration number.
Probably because it's on the website:
At any rate, his job description doesn't include taking offense because he can't wear his favorite mask.Quote:
The Federal Air Marshal Service detects, deters and defeats hostile acts against aviation. Federal Air Marshals are armed federal law enforcement officers deployed on passenger flights worldwide to protect airline passengers and crew against the risk of criminal and terrorist violence. Federal Air Marshals perform investigative work and participate in multi-agency task forces and in land-based investigative assignments to proactively fight terrorism. The Federal Air Marshal Service promotes public confidence in the safety of the nation’s aviation system.
Be careful, pun master @blues might take offense. ;)
If you are offended by the american flag - go fuck yourself. But I thought the whole idea of a FAM was to be the gray man; not to wear the shoot me first mask.
Sometimes looking like a “normal” traveler could be effective camouflage. Blend in with your environment and don’t look too serious. Isn’t part of being the grey man going to be driven by where you are and who’s around?
As for your first point - agree completely. It’s not like America is east Berlin. You don’t like it here? Get the fuck out. We aren’t forcing anyone to stay.
I totally agree about blending in. That also means no target indicators. No jewelry , expensive sunglasses or watches. No emblems, ball caps, sport logos, brand labels (unless you are specifically wearing a brand or label tied to the location. or any other identifying marks.
I was assigned to a plain clothes robbery detail along time ago. We had shitty cars from local auto auction. I didn’t shave, jeans, hoodie, old ball cap and an old army field jacket was my look. I carried a 14” 870 SBS under my coat. I thought I was blending - slouched down in a shitty car until a black family parked next to me. A four year boy said “Momma, there’s a white man in the car.” His mom didn’t miss a beat. She just said “don’t pay the police man no mind”
sometimes you just can’t blend in
FAM was probably wondering why he chose a job where he had to spend his working hours in a pressurized aluminum tube that recirculates the air of passengers who have C19. Maybe carrying that around in his head all day prompted his response. I had a few of those days toward the end of my 30 years with a gov't agency. Not a lot of sympathy from management either. I was clearly wrong after looking back on it, as he was. Just do the damn job or move on. That's about all I can say. Has nothing to do with the American flag IMO.
This is where @TGS's comment about being the FAM probably being a douchebag applies. Putting on the gaiter over the airline's mask should have resolved the issue, unless he had been a cock the whole time, and the gate agent decided to give it back to him.
It is, but you guys again with your "shoot me first" ridiculousness. Now the US flag sets you apart as a wannabe sheepdog that the jihadis will eliminate first in a critical dynamic incident? (On a domestic flight. Wearing the US flag in some areas of the world is a bad idea.)
I’m not linking the american flag with the sheep dog concept. I was just trying to point out that none of us know who or what the threat will be so why stand out? IIRC terrorists in past have collected passports and selected victims by the nation on the passport. Or was that just a movie? I do remember terrorists murdering elderly American Leon Klinghoffer in a wheel Chair. Why? Those terrorist did collect passports and said they wanted to execute an american first.
From wiki “as 3:00 p.m. neared, the terrorists began to decide whom to kill by shuffling the U.S., British, and Austrian hostages' passports. They selected Leon Klinghoffer to be killed first. Several reasons have been put forward that may have contributed to why Klinghoffer was chosen. Earlier in the hijacking, he had refused to be silent when gunmen took his watch and cigarettes, becoming brusque and complaining in his slurred speech which antagonized some of the hijackers though one of them gave Klinghoffer his possessions back. Additionally, Klinghoffer was Jewish and American, and his wheelchair made him both hard to move around the ship and meant his extended absence from the main group was less likely to trigger a chain reaction of resistance among the surviving hostages. One of the hijackers, Molqi, later gave a statement on why he was chosen: "I and Bassm [al-Ashker] agreed that the first hostage to be killed had to be an American. I chose Klinghoffer, an invalid, so that they would know that we had no pity for anyone, just as the Americans, arming Israel, do not take into consideration that Israel kills women and children of our people."
Anyone seen Jackdog 'round here lately? Seems he might have something relevant to add here.
Yep!
Things that make you say Hmmm...... :confused:
Also from my recollection - most of Frontier’s outstation workers are contracted employees which in my considerable airline experience (having been such a contracted employee) gets you workers with a much lower “give a flip” quotient.
Please do not take my post the wrong way. I wear a Flag Pin unless I am dressed ultra casual and fly a U.S. Flag at my house. In respect for the flag, I have never worn a garment with a partial flag on it or any other facsimile of the flag that is not the full thing. I certainly would not use the flag to silence myself by wearing it over my mouth. While I had Covid, I would have infected the flag that I love so much.
Bob
To keep the plane out of the hands of the hijackers.
Not a FAM, but if you ever take a Flying Armed class (usually a component with Federal training, but I believe state/local can take it) and have a good instructor... you’ll learn some good stuff.
My coworker, who was a FAM previously, is down in TX on TDY. I’ll try to check in if he knows anything about it.
As a pilot (retired) with a legacy carrier, I was always notified when there was an Air Marshall on the plane and who it was as they were armed, but they always tried to blend in and not cause any reason for people to think they were not just another passenger, which also meant not doing anything that may set anyone off or call attention to them.
Bob