AAR Ernest Langdon's 3 Day Advanced Tactical Pistol Skills

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Originally Posted by BlueSky

I am the fellow referred to above who said he was 80. And I am eighty years of age. In my now long life I am sure I have completed at least 50 2 or 3 days classes and have always been safe, to the extreme, and a good marksman. I have never been "that guy" and it pains me that I have finally done it. Fatigue, both mental and physical, accumulated. As described above. I am embarrassed and apologetic. Know your limits. Maybe I should have self-screened but I had just made the switch to TDA and really wanted a class with Ernest. I went beyond my limits which have changed over the past couple of years.

About the class - In my youth I read the World Book encyclopedia just for the joy of it. This class was that as pertains to pistolcraft. Out of a firehose. Communicated in detail and always including the "why". Go there if you can.

Apologies for being a burden.

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I'll train with you anytime.

And if by "that guy" you mean the guy we all want to emulate and model our resilience and performance after, then yeah, you're "that guy".

Much respect.

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Originally Posted by BlueSky

I am the fellow referred to above who said he was 80. And I am eighty years of age. In my now long life I am sure I have completed at least 50 2 or 3 days classes and have always been safe, to the extreme, and a good marksman. I have never been "that guy" and it pains me that I have finally done it. Fatigue, both mental and physical, accumulated. As described above. I am embarrassed and apologetic. Know your limits. Maybe I should have self-screened but I had just made the switch to TDA and really wanted a class with Ernest. I went beyond my limits which have changed over the past couple of years.

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Good classes always seem to push me to the edge of my mental capacity. When learning at an accelerated pace, it's easy to get mentally fatigued. Add in the heat, and physical fatigue is almost a guarantee. Especially for those of us who aren't out in it everyday.

I've been on that range when I was half your age, and I was very, very near the same place you got to. It sneaks up on you. But you understood what happened, and I bet it won't happen again.

I hope I'm out training when I am 80.

This is one of the best threads ever. A detailed and well done AAR. The OP’s kind description of and gentle approach on the line towards the 80-year-old gentleman who was otherwise squared away but faltering in the afternoon heat on TD3. The 80-year-old gentleman announcing himself, expressing regret and taking full responsibility. The kind, understanding and encouraging responses to him.

The best part: an 80-year-old pushing himself because at 80, he had just switched to TDA and wanted the best TDA instruction out there.

May we all live to (at least) 80 and upon reaching that milestone may we all be of mind to undertake and conquer new challenges.

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Originally Posted by Kanye Wyoming

This is one of the best threads ever. A detailed and well done AAR. The OP’s kind description of and gentle approach on the line towards the 80-year-old gentleman who was otherwise squared away but faltering in the afternoon heat on TD3. The 80-year-old gentleman announcing himself, expressing regret and taking full responsibility. The kind, understanding and encouraging responses to him.

The best part: an 80-year-old pushing himself because at 80, he had just switched to TDA and wanted the best TDA instruction out there.

May we all live to (at least) 80 and upon reaching that milestone may we all be of mind to undertake and conquer new challenges.

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Amen

Well, I'll have to say I wimped out of the course (with advance notice so the spot could be filled). Had minor weak hand thumb surgery which wasn't quite healed, and hindered grip/indexing. And some low grade strong-side shoulder pain, which wasn't awful but flared occasionally, and probably/maybe wouldn't have given me issues. However, at appt with ortho surgeon last week, he decided to order an MRI. Got that done Tuesday, and results same day. He wondered why I wasn't experiencing pain with higher round counts at range ('cause I was mostly shooting my .22). And now I'm scheduled for rotator cuff surgery. So as a youngster at 71, I'm not in the toughness league of @BlueSky. Hat's off.

Having attended Ernest's "regular" class, I was looking forward to the advanced class. And told Ernest I'd sign up next year. I've attended several training courses, and have to say Ernest is perhaps the best I've seen for being engaged and enthusiastic, and communicating information. And best as I recall, his sub-5 sec demo of the F.A.S.T. was so smooth that he made it look pretty simple (yeah, uh-huh, sure). No one in that class got a coin.

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Originally Posted by LangdonTactical

Thank you for the kind words, I am not sure I deserve them.

To be honest, I am personally not happy with how the class went. I normally give a lot more personal coaching in my classes and you deserved to get more time from me. The bad news is that you were shooting well and handling your gun safely. As you stated, we had some issues in the class. There were at least 4 if not 5 guys in the class that should not have been there. They were in way over their heads and needed to be watched constantly. One of them had to be removed for a safety violation on the morning of the second day. I had to spend almost all my time down around those guys watching their every move. It was exhausting and unfair for the rest of the class.
I am trying to come up with a plan for how to deal with this issue. I am not sure why people think they are ready for an "Advanced" shooting class when they don't even have a full grasp of the fundamentals of marksmanship?

I have had several classes where we had "that guy" that needed extra attention, but this time I had a bunch of them.

Please understand that a lot of my comments were not directed at you, but at others on the line that needed to hear that.

It was a very frustrating weekend for me and I am going to try to figure out how to do a better job of screening people that come to my class.

Thanks again for the review and for being a student that I did not need to watch for three daysstraight!

Ernest

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This may not be practical, but it is an idea for screening. Decide on what skills are most critical to you in terms of safety and gun handling, and have students send you a short video of themselves doing it dryfire. For example, show me: 1) three draws from the holster, and reholster. 2) three administrative reloads, 3) three slide lock reloads, 4) three clearing pistol, 5) three dryfire from low ready, high ready. etc. The video would not be a mandatory requirement for attendance but you would glean valuable information from the submitted clips. The students that submit videos would be more motivated, give you a baseline assessment, and possibly be less of a concern (or more concerning depending on what you see!). The students that did not submit videos would be identified for closer monitoring in the beginning. The downside is that someone would have to watch the videos and it is more of your time. There are logistical issues of video submission, but I think most people these days would be capable of overcoming the IT hurdles.

Because @Moylan did such a good write up already I figured I would add to this thread.

I just finished Ernest’s 3 day course here in UT and it was everything I was hoping for and more! Ernest runs a great class and really puts a lot of time and effort into his instruction. He worked his ass off to give us a ton of quality information and exposure to things you don’t find at most classes.

My weaknesses were quickly exposed on days 1 and 2, which was great to help me learn what I need to work on. I already know my strong hand and support hand only shooting needed work, but I found it needs a lot more work than I thought!

The night shoot involved testing different handheld methods along with your wml while shooting and was definitely an eye opening experience. I again witnessed how being better with strong hand only would go a long way to making me a more well rounded shooter. Shooting the mover on day 3 was another experience that’s hard to find anywhere else. Not only shooting a mover but shooting a mover while moving and drawing was a new experience for me. I have been to classes where we shot on the move but not to this extent nor to this level. Moving aggressively from one target to another was new.

Ernest did a great job helping me fix my technique while moving and while using cover. At one point I shuffled my way from one target to another instead of being an athlete and he was right there to correct me.

Our class had some extremely good shooters and it was fun to participate along with them. I definitely felt pushed to find my limits. We had a coin winner (with some blazing times) and a couple others who were close.

All in all, I feel extremely lucky to have been able to attend a bucket list class so close to home. I came away with a ton of new things learned and plenty to work on to become a more well rounded shooter.

Big thanks to Ernest @LangdonTactical for being such a professional and for coming to Utah. And thank you to the Tier 1 Concealed team for bringing him to UT and being a class act the whole weekend.

- Tyson L