Your preferred .357 carry load for 4" guns?

I just picked up a new to me M19-3 that I am now waiting on a aiwb holster from jmcustom. So it looks like I'm going to carry it some.

I'm pretty comfortable using Buffalo bore, double tap, Underwood, or load myself 180 WFN at 1200-1400 for woods loads. I'm happy with what ever cheap .38 I can find for training but I'm having a hard time picking a good SD carry load. I have some .38sp Winchester 130gr+p bonded that shoots well but all the tests I've seen has it hovering around 10-12" in gel/denim+gel and most of those were tested from a snubby. Without seeing how they do in a 4" gun I'm unsure if the extra 50-100fps would hinder penatration.

That seems to be about as good as it gets for .38 defense loads. Im having trouble finding up to date numbers on available .357 Magnum.

What do you carry?

Maybe I need to just order a couple k 180 grain wfn some more unique and call it good.

There was a thread about this a few weeks ago. The consensus was Winchester Silvertip, with some of the old school 158-grain JHPs close behind. 125s are effective but hard on K frames. Most modern 158s seem to overpenetrate.

I use Remington’s 158 JHPs because I have a fixed-sight 681. In your 19, Speer’s short-barrel Gold Dot might be a good choice.

Winchester Silvertip 145gr. and if I run out, Federal 158gr JHP for the 4"

Just finished one of Grant Cunningham's books and his recommended load for .357 revolvers is the .38 special Gold Dot 135grn +P. Coincidently, that's what I typically carry myself due to convenience as it's what is in my snubbies. It just seems to work.

Once in a while I'll get a crazy hair and use 125grn full-house Federal .357's. A steady diet is hard on K-frames, but they'll take some full-power loads without issue.

I like the looks of the Speer 135gr. .357 Magnums from what I've seen. Plus they're affordable on target sport https://www.targetsportsusa.com/spee...17-p-1599.aspx, just need to wait for them to restock.

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Originally Posted by revchuck38

There was a thread about this a few weeks ago. The consensus was Winchester Silvertip, with some of the old school 158-grain JHPs close behind. 125s are effective but hard on K frames. Most modern 158s seem to overpenetrate.

I use Remington’s 158 JHPs because I have a fixed-sight 681. In your 19, Speer’s short-barrel Gold Dot might be a good choice.

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Here's that thread.

See: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ecommendations

145-grain Silvertip is a well-liked load, but can be difficult to find. 158-grain Federal Hydra-Shok is fine, 158-grain Gold Dot is fine from a 4" gun. 125-grain Gold Dot is also quite good. Also excellent, the 125-grain Barnes Tac-XP and the 140-grain Barnes Vortx*.

*The downside to the Vortx is it tends to over-penetrate. The Buffalo Bore "Buffalo-Barnes" - short barrel 140-grain Barnes load - firing a 140-grain bullet @1250 should be damn near perfect (https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=324).

Dad had some of the Remington 158 sjhp loads for his 4" 19, I just bought some more of them when I needed magnum loads (seldom), or the older Winchester/Western 158 gr Lubaloy wide flat point swc type factory loads. I recall favorable comments here a while back from some that had used the rem sjhp loads or seen them used, so never looked any further other than a short flirtation with 125 gr loads some time back. The 125s were nothing short of hideous to shoot in a 2 1/2" 19 and are probably the main reason I sold it at the time.

I hit a jack once with that Lubaloy load from a 6" smith, it exploded it, which rather surprised me, as I never had a jack explode even from a 223 55 gr sp load. I figured theyd be passable as bear loads, but havent shot anything large with them.

Once I shot a 29 much, I discovered shooting it was less bothersome with muzzle blast than a 4" 357. I doubt Ive shot more than perhaps 1500 357s all told. They just arent much fun in a 4" gun, and not all that nice in a 6". Ive only recently started liking the smaller calibers again, and mostly shot 38 spl for general practice and fun. Its worried me that if I found myself in a bad situation id hesitate to shoot if I couldnt get earplugs in and had 357 loads.

Thanks all. I saw that thread. The silver tips might do it for me. I do tend to prefer slightly heavier bullets.

Does anyone have any info on how Remingtons 125 grain, non bonded, golden sabers work through hard barriers? They seem to do well in lucky gunners test but I've heard a lot of reports of the non bonded bullets not doin so we'll against glass/metal.

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Originally Posted by 03RN

Thanks all. I saw that thread. The silver tips might do it for me. I do tend to prefer slightly heavier bullets.

Does anyone have any info on how Remingtons 125 grain, non bonded, golden sabers work through hard barriers? They seem to do well in lucky gunners test but I've heard a lot of reports of the non bonded bullets not doin so we'll against glass/metal.

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I don't think any ( all calibers) of the non-bonded Golden Saber stuff keeps its jacket on very well through any hard barriers. But then again, the Silvertips probably wouldn't either. If I was to carry that 19, I'd be tempted to stoke it with 135gr Gold Dot (.38 or .357 flavor, probably .38 because it's more available).

I've had good luck with a batch of RA38B so far in my little 442... $15/50 was too good of a price to pass up for premium ammo, otherwise I'd probably be using the Gold Dot load.

Using my 2.5in 686+ the Gold Dot 135 mag averaged 1104 for 5 shots. Very mild and shot to the factory set sights at 15 yards. The only 4in I have is a 581 and for that I use Remington 158jhp

I chronographed some RA38B through a 4" .38 GP-100 and got an average of 940 fps. It would be interesting to see how it would behave in gel at that velocity. Took advantage of the 15/50 deal as well and bought four boxes.
Might try some of the .357 Gold Dot in my newly acquired 3" M65.

135gr speer gold dots or 158gr lswchp

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Originally Posted by deputyG23

I chronographed some RA38B through a 4" .38 GP-100 and got an average of 940 fps. It would be interesting to see how it would behave in gel at that velocity. Took advantage of the 15/50 deal as well and bought four boxes.
Might try some of the .357 Gold Dot in my newly acquired 3" M65.

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I got a bunch of that as well right now. CDNN has the golden sabers .357 for $10/25
RA3B .38 +p bonded
Attachment 27467

.357 Golden Saber
Attachment 27468

I have a J-frame S&W 340PD (.357) that I carry Winchester Ranger .38+P 130 grain bonded JHP. I have shot some 145 grain Silvertips through it just to see how they felt. Those 5 .357s were brutal. Lots of recoil and follow-up shots were obviously more difficult. I then shot some Gold Dot 135 grain JHP. I would say these are a medium load in .357 since the recoil was no where as bad. You still knew you lit off a .357, but it was not brutal when fired.

I remember reading somewhere that the 125 grain bullets were hard on K-frames because of the propellant gasses cutting into the forcing cone. This is not an issue with 158s.

My final thought is to shoot a load where you are not anticipating the recoil. I think knowing that you are going to get hammered with recoil might affect getting a good sight picture. And a K-frame is going to give you a whole lot more grip to hold onto versus a J-frame.

I still think the Federal 140gr load using a Barnes X-Bullet is the way to go, thesedays.

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Originally Posted by Brian T

I still think the Federal 140gr load using a Barnes X-Bullet is the way to go, thesedays.

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Yes. So do I.

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Originally Posted by JAH 3rd

I have a J-frame S&W 340PD (.357) that I carry Winchester Ranger .38+P 130 grain bonded JHP. I have shot some 145 grain Silvertips through it just to see how they felt. Those 5 .357s were brutal. Lots of recoil and follow-up shots were obviously more difficult. I then shot some Gold Dot 135 grain JHP. I would say these are a medium load in .357 since the recoil was no where as bad. You still knew you lit off a .357, but it was not brutal when fired.

I remember reading somewhere that the 125 grain bullets were hard on K-frames because of the propellant gasses cutting into the forcing cone. This is not an issue with 158s.

My final thought is to shoot a load where you are not anticipating the recoil. I think knowing that you are going to get hammered with recoil might affect getting a good sight picture. And a K-frame is going to give you a whole lot more grip to hold onto versus a J-frame.

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That's actually why the golden sabers caught my eye. They are a little slower at 1200fps. Iirc the 125s at 1400fps are what were causing the cutting. Either way I don't plan on shooting a lot of them.

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Originally Posted by hubcap

Yes. So do I.

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I ordered some the other day to test out

I'm thinking that might be a good all around load for sd and deer/bear hunting

@03RN Let us know how they test out for you.

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Originally Posted by hubcap

@03RN Let us know how they test out for you.

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Will do

FWIW, below is a link to places that have the .357 mag 145 gr Silvertip load in stock.

https://ammoseek.com/ammo/357-magnum...gun-145grains-

The Remington LHPSWC 38 spl. gives about identical expansion and penetration as the Winchester 145 sthp in 4 inch guns... something to consider. From some of my 3 inch 357s though the LHP 38 load only does about 800 fps (same as 2 inch 38s) so I don't use it in the 3 inch 357s

I have the LHP load in one of my 4 inch 357 Ruger SS revolvers.

It was a little complicated, but I loaded 124gr. 9mm GD bullets in 357 cases to duplicate the Speer 9mm load and it shoots very well from my 357 Ruger Blackhawk 4 5/8 bbl.

I own a 1.0 FS M&P .40 (4.25" barrel) in which I keep a factory .357 SIG barrel in it at all times. My EDC rd. in it is 125 gr. PDX1 ammo.

The second handgun I owned was a Ruger Security-Six with a six inch barrel. I got it about 1980. I tried all the common loads back then...110gr., 125gr and the 158s. After all these years, I've come to settle on the Remington 125gr. Golden Sabre load in this caliber, especially in 4in or less barrels. The flash, blast and recoil are all very manageable compared to the regular 125gr. loads but still have a good amount of oomph to them.

I know that it’s so old school as to almost be gauche, but anymore all I carry in any wheelgun chambered in .38/.357 is 148 grain wadcutters. They meet the most important criteria for a carry load in a wheelgun - they shoot to the fixed sights on most guns.

They’re also easy to shoot well, and have sufficient penetration to reach vital organs. The only thing they’re not really great at is shooting through auto glass, but I reckon if I’m shooting my LCR through someone’s windshield I’m having a really stupid day.

The 125 grain barnes tac tx seems to be the winner for me. In my fixed sight guns they shoot to POA and they were the most accurate out of my guns in shooting groups.

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Originally Posted by caleb

I know that it’s so old school as to almost be gauche, but anymore all I carry in any wheelgun chambered in .38/.357 is 148 grain wadcutters. They meet the most important criteria for a carry load in a wheelgun - they shoot to the fixed sights on most guns.

They’re also easy to shoot well, and have sufficient penetration to reach vital organs. The only thing they’re not really great at is shooting through auto glass, but I reckon if I’m shooting my LCR through someone’s windshield I’m having a really stupid day.

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[musing aloud] Wonder if the copper-plated versions do any better through intermediate barriers... [/musing aloud, because I don't know, myself]

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Originally Posted by Sidheshooter

[musing aloud] Wonder if the copper-plated versions do any better through intermediate barriers... [/musing aloud, because I don't know, myself]

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Unless they're bonded, I'm guessing they act like any other plated/jacketed round and shed the jacket almost immediately in an intermediate barrier.

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Originally Posted by caleb

The only thing they’re not really great at is shooting through auto glass, but I reckon if I’m shooting my LCR through someone’s windshield I’m having a really stupid day.

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It's easy to think of scenarios that would require me to shoot through my own windshield or side windows.

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Originally Posted by Hambo

It's easy to think of scenarios that would require me to shoot through my own windshield or side windows.

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I can think of lots of scenarios where I might have to shoot through a windshield or side glass, but none of them have a very high probability of occurring when I’m just being Joe Citizen and not at work. I’m not saying they can’t happen, but how many non-LEO/mil shootings can you think of that involved shooting someone through a windshield?

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Originally Posted by caleb

I’m not saying they can’t happen, but how many non-LEO/mil shootings can you think of that involved shooting someone through a windshield?

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I’m sure it has happened, but I can’t come up with an example, myself. Probably a job for Mas or Tom Givens.

This sort of radical thinking is why I’m still personally comfortable stocking various "FBI” loads for wheelies with 3" or greater tubes.

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Originally Posted by caleb

I can think of lots of scenarios where I might have to shoot through a windshield or side glass, but none of them have a very high probability of occurring when I’m just being Joe Citizen and not at work. I’m not saying they can’t happen, but how many non-LEO/mil shootings can you think of that involved shooting someone through a windshield?

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No stats, but there is a lot of traffic here, with lots of stops at lights, and lots of sketchy pedestrians who can be in close proximity to vehicles.