Looking for Feedback on Target Designs

A year or so ago I started messing around with vector graphics to make my own targets for training. It turns out that I really enjoy it and have been refining, learning, and adding features as I go. I've found I really enjoy using these, and I like the portability. I've finally got all the math right to print out a large target into 8 pages to piece together from standard 8.5x11 paper. Adobe Acrobat has this feature, but it sucks for this application and I needed complete control over it. I'm thinking of making a website where these are downloadable. I feel like the most serious shooters are here, and I'd really appreciate honest feedback on the primary design. Here's an explanation of the elements of the target:
1. The targets are purposefully simple line drawings in black and shades of grey to conserve the most toner or ink while still being visible. They print out on 8 sheets of paper, with the option of only printing the first 6 for a smaller torso target. There are solid lines that show where to trim the margins, as the vast majority of printers don't print edge to edge and the paper needs to be trimmed to pull this off.
2. The circles above the square aiming points represent height over bore holdoff for an AR-15 at close range.
3. The large rectangle around the chest is the size of a USPSA A Zone.
4. The dotted line is the "spine box" inspired by Paul Howe.
5. There is a 1" square grid on the entire target to measure groups. It is very subdued and only visible up close.
6. Although I get the most positive feed back from the target with the skeleton and organs, it's really intended as a teaching tool to explain the more simple target as it would take a lot of ink to use it all the time.
7. My intent is not to get into the printing business as there are already a plethora of great targets out there. I want to fill the void where people might want easier portability, or may be out of commercial targets and need a way to print some out for a range day instead of waiting for a delivery.
I have more designs than this, but these are the ones I feel are ready for prime time. Thanks in advance.
Attachment 52187
Attachment 52188
Attachment 52189

Review this thread.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ntable-Targets

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OlongJohnson

Review this thread.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ntable-Targets

---

I'm a heavy contributor to that thread. I'm putting this here because I'm not putting anything for download and actually asking for feedback. People go to that thread only looking to download targets, I want a wider set of eyes.

My only real thought is that the 2" circles are rather close to the silhouette of the head, which may be an issue for folks that aren't as accurate, as they may end up plugging the head when aiming for the 2" (or the converse). There's obviously room on the right side to move it over a bit, but left will be more problematic to preserve the spacing with the 1" circles, so dunno what I would suggest to rectify it on that side.

Concur with there being too many "dots" too close to the head - makes the target busy. I'd also "shorten" the chest "box" - I think you have it extending too far down based on anatomy. I'd cut about 20% off the bottom - so the box ends just below the bottom of the lungs.

@Mr_White has done a lot of fascinating research into how our eyes perceive targets, maybe he'll drop in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by psalms144.1

Concur with there being too many "dots" too close to the head - makes the target busy.

---

Agree. Maybe move the 1" circles down below the "gun", and then split the 2" circles into two staggered rows on either side of the head?

Something like:

Attachment 52199

I can definitely re-think the dot placement. Right now the 2" circles are placed in such a way that you can run the dot torture drill. I initally moved them close to the head so they could double as "don't hit the hostage" aiming points, but it sounds like I need to put some more room there.
The center chest rectangle is purposefully sized like a USPSA A Zone, because a lot of trainers use those targets. The 1" square represents ideal upper thoracic shot placement in that zone. I practice CSAT standards quite a bit and actually try to keep bullets in the spine box. I used to have a 5x7 rectangle there instead for a high accuracy standard, but the A zone seems to be a universal standard for "passing" and not all shooters can hold that group like most of us can.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LittleLebowski

@Mr_White has done a lot of fascinating research into how our eyes perceive targets, maybe he'll drop in.

---

That would be awesome, exactly what I'm looking for. I have versions of these with circles instead of rectangles and the typical LE bowling pin outline, they are just not refined enough yet.

I mocked up some quick changes made from feedback. I moved the dot torture circles 1" away from the head in each direction and replaced the tiny dots with 2 more 2" circles to remove visual clutter. I put 2 horizontal dotted lines to outline the heart/aorta just to see if that adds too much, based on the suggestion of @psalms144.1.
Attachment 52203

I don't really have any suggestions with regard to the targets, but I like them!

I like the addition of the two horizontal dashed lines. I think the top one is perfectly placed where the clavicles meet but the bottom line is a little too high. The base of the lungs would be about half way between the bottom of the A Zone and where you placed it. Otherwise, I think this is a great target. I love targets that have weapons in hand for any kind of qualification course of fire. I’m not a fan of shooting at a generic silhouette and prefer a visible indicator that this is your threat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DanM

I like the addition of the two horizontal dashed lines. I think the top one is perfectly placed where the clavicles meet but the bottom line is a little too high. The base of the lungs would be about half way between the bottom of the A Zone and where you placed it. Otherwise, I think this is a great target. I love targets that have weapons in hand for any kind of qualification course of fire. I’m not a fan of shooting at a generic silhouette and prefer a visible indicator that this is your threat.

---

Thank you for the kind words. Great minds think alike, when I finally sat down to tweak things I found that placing the horizontal dotted lines in 4"x6" box, it frames the aorta and heart. I think this makes for a really good accuracy standard to achieve outside of the lower standard of A zone hits. I've also cleaned up the alternate aiming dots and started work on a Long Distance target. I haven't found any other way to make it visible at 300 yards other than making a dark background, but I've found that 50% gray is easier on toner than black and stands out enough.
I have future plans of making a hand holding other objects to print out and overlay for shoot/no shoot decisions. I'm also putting final touches on a version with line drawing facial and body features instead of target zones, intended as a harder version of the target that doesn't tell you where to shoot.
Attachment 52411
Attachment 52412
Attachment 52413

Any chance of seeing this with the IDPA chest circle high in the chest? Very interesting target.

Target looks very well thought out. Maybe something to consider would be changing some of the circles for dot torture to different shapes like a square, diamond, triangle, star etc. Shapes can also contain a number. When training with others or calling the line a number or shape can be called keeping the shooter focused and thinking during drills.

On a somewhat related note; we have been doing some carbine training that includes shooting a silhouette target at 300 paces. Shooters using magnification have no issue but guys running unmagnified stuff can have a hard time differentiating between the actual target and the surface it is printed on.

Black and white "picture" targets with scowling bad guys or other targets like a TQ15 with a fairly light colored silhouette can get pretty indistinct beyond maybe 150.

The VTAC target works fairly well with its white target and black background. But what might work best is the plain old B27 with the black silhouette on white.

I don't know if this is helpful or not but it might be something to keep in mind if you decide to use the targets for something other than pistol.


Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChrisLapre

Any chance of seeing this with the IDPA chest circle high in the chest? Very interesting target.

---

I do have a prototype version of this, here is a screenshot. Actually, I have a ton of designs and the different target zones and shapes are easy to customize now that I have the hard work of the Silhouette where I want it. The main thing I want to know is if I'm actually solving a problem that needs solving, would others besides me go through the trouble of trimming margins and gluing multiple sheets?

Attachment 52588

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tokarev

On a somewhat related note; we have been doing some carbine training that includes shooting a silhouette target at 300 paces. Shooters using magnification have no issue but guys running unmagnified stuff can have a hard time differentiating between the actual target and the surface it is printed on.

Black and white "picture" targets with scowling bad guys or other targets like a TQ15 with a fairly light colored silhouette can get pretty indistinct beyond maybe 150.

The VTAC target works fairly well with its white target and black background. But what might work best is the plain old B27 with the black silhouette on white.

I don't know if this is helpful or not but it might be something to keep in mind if you decide to use the targets for something other than pistol.


Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

---

This brings up something I'm unsure of. I've already done the work to create the USPSA, IDPA, and NRA targets into my multple sheet format. It's how I initially learned Inkscape well enough to do my own artwork. I'm really unsure if those are public domain and if it's legal for me to offer them even though I made them from scratch from rulebook measurements. Anyone here know?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stomridertx

This brings up something I'm unsure of. I've already done the work to create the USPSA, IDPA, and NRA targets into my multple sheet format. It's how I initially learned Inkscape well enough to do my own artwork. I'm really unsure if those are public domain and if it's legal for me to offer them even though I made them from scratch from rulebook measurements. Anyone here know?

---

Thanks. The IDPA ring looks excellent. Really appreciate you posting it.

I'd like to thank everyone for the helpful feedback. This is the flagship version I'm going run with as "version 1.0". I will have variations of target zones and objects in the hand, but the alternate aiming points and Silhouette will be locked to this so I can put more design work into making a full featured series of targets. I will be making single sheet repair targets for the head and chest as well. I'm hoping when all is said and done to give people an option for self-printing targets, whether it be their sole training target or to fill in gaps when either waiting for a shipment or increased portability of the system is desired. Using this model I can fit all the targets I need for a day of training into a small portfolio.

Attachment 53043

Here are a series of photos I took of my last range preparation that show what it's like to prepare the targets using a very inexpensive trimmer from Wal-Mart. There are very well defined cut lines that make lining up the cut easy and less prone to error.

Attachment 53044
Attachment 53045
Attachment 53046
Attachment 53047
Attachment 53048