I got a new shot timer... Feedback please.

I have never owned a shot timer before and a few weeks ago I got one from AMG Lab. Today was the first chance I had to go test it out.

I ran a basic 'drill' where I was shooting from complete concealment with my 365XL at about 10-12 yards (I shoot in a cow pasture so I didn't measure).

I fired 36 shots total.

My fastest from a relaxed state with my hands by my sides like I was just walking around minding my own business was 1.75 to clear my shirt, draw, get on target, and fire a round.

I have NO IDEA how this stacks up to other shooters. I have never paid any attention to 'times' or followed competitions, hence the thread.

In my 36 shots I missed two times but that was all me (getting tired). Every other shot was a solid hit, center mass on a 2/3 size IPSC target with a six inch center circle painted on it.

My highest single shot was I think 2.36 seconds. After about 5-6 shots I was reliably under 2.0 seconds (all from complete concealment) until I hit about shot 30 and I could feel myself getting tired so I started to creep back up over 2.0 seconds for most of the last 5 shots or so.

I did it once (just because I was curious) where I drew from concealment and fired two shots. I think the first shot was 1.88 seconds and the second (split) time was .43 for a total of 2.31 seconds and both shots were center mass (even to my surprise inside the 6" circle).

Any and all constructive feedback is welcome. I am looking primarily to see where 'the best of the best' are at and where 'the average joe' is at. Keep in mind this is literally my first and only outing ever with a shot timer. I am going to start using it a whole lot more when I practice both rifles and pistols.

This set of tests by Gabe White is a good yardstick:

http://www.gabewhitetraining.com/tec...-skills-tests/

I took Gabe's class in 2018, it was a complete eye opener. Highly recommended.

I just watched this video and learned that I am slower than Christmas or molasses on a cold day. LOL

Maybe eventually I will cut my time in half. The latter few shots he did were .8 seconds for a draw and fire while scoring a hit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKoVfDfsPM4

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Originally Posted by alamo5000

Any and all constructive feedback is welcome. I am looking primarily to see where 'the best of the best' are at and where 'the average joe' is at. Keep in mind this is literally my first and only outing ever with a shot timer. I am going to start using it a whole lot more when I practice both rifles and pistols.

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Welcome!

There are going to be some pretty big ranges of times depending on how you specifically define start position and targets.
Like @RJ said, it's best to set up an accepted standard and complete that standard to compare against an established database.

The most competitive and comprehensive database would be USPSA classifiers (with updated Hit Factors 2018), but those runs aren't from concealment and with gear that's faster than what you're carrying.

Also keep in mind that the average Pistol-Forum shooter is better than the average gun owner.

When you said you hit center mass on a 2/3 target... do you mean you hit all those shots within the 6" center drawn circle? or just within the A zone? Because that matters.

For the forum here, I'd say that performance is probably about a 3/10 depending on what your shot dispersion actually looked like.

I'd consider myself an 8/10 shooter here give or take. There are definitely people here faster and more skilled than I am.

With a P365XL at those distances to hit a 6" at 10 yards I'd probably be at a consistent 1.2-1.4 from concealment reproducibly.
Splits at that distance probably around 0.25-0.30 at that distance with that gun if you were talking about requiring it to be in the 6" circle.

If talking about the whole scaled A zone then probably sub 1 second concealed draw and sub 0.20 splits

Some not quite apples to apples runs that I extrapolated that from.

Gear change drill. From open OWB holster draw to 5, 10 and 15 yard targets. Black center is 5.5" so roughly the same size target you're talking about, but a much more tricked out gun and holster (I was shooting 40SW though).
https://youtu.be/VKpzpIg_gHM

Triple nickel. From concealed AIWB draw to 5 yard A-zones, with a P365 so a slight bit more difficult of a gun but similar.
https://youtu.be/ckm0ZXXb1n4

Sub 5 second FAST drill with ~1.5s concealed P365 draw to a 3x5" card at 7 yards
https://youtu.be/fKUlXzcw0RY

Three shots to IDPA -0 (8" circle) in 1.68s total from OWB draw. But more of a gamer gun makes it easier.
https://youtu.be/DlPbtjbiWMg

Mozambique from hands at surrender and concealment in 1.35s. But a G19 size gun.
https://youtu.be/e2sRwwOE550

Sub-second P365XL with manual safety engaged draw from concealment on close targets, but the grouping would hold to longer distances.
https://youtu.be/ZO0mi3lSFuc

With a Glock 43x, about as fast as I can go from concealment and hit a close target (0.69s).
https://youtu.be/ul3MslPRmic

Based on standards I've seen thrown around, I'd say for cold on-demand performance a 2.0 sec standard is the bare minimum, 1.5 would be good, and 1.0 would be really great. For CCW, I would use high COM or a B8 center, not necessarily the full entire A zone of an USPSA target. Distances would probably be probably in the 5-7 yards range. I think you can work on improving your splits as well to help develop the ability to track sights at speed, work on recoil control, and such, but a good case could be made that for self defense incidents 0.5 sec splits would be better to allow for more situational assessment.

I'd say for your slightly longer distance and working with a smaller pistol your performance is above the average shooter, though if you carry the 365XL primarily you should elevate your performance to those standards and not use that as an excuse to shoot to a lower level. At your current level of skill, I think you'd be able to get to the 1.0-1.50 sec range fairly quickly with regular and consistent dry fire using the your shot timer to track progress and push yourself to get faster, more consistent and more efficient with your draw.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JCN

When you said you hit center mass on a 2/3 target... do you mean you hit all those shots within the 6" center drawn circle? or just within the A zone? Because that matters.

With a P365XL at those distances to hit a 6" at 10 yards I'd probably be at a consistent 1.2-1.4 from concealment reproducibly.
Splits at that distance probably around 0.25-0.30 at that distance with that gun if you were talking about requiring it to be in the 6" circle.

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I went out and shot again (keep in mind I can shoot in my back yard). I shot two mags and I got my times down to having 3 shots in the 1.3's. A 1.35, a 1.38, and a 1.39. None of them went over 2 in either mag. I think my high was 1.8ish out of 24 unique attempts.

There is no doubt that I have a lot of room to improve. Today in the first session I shot 3 mags (36 rounds) and the second time 2 mags (24 rounds). For quite literally being my first time ever being timed at anything at least I know my starting point.

I am a pretty meticulous person about most things. I will try to think through ways to improve. None the less I am glad I got a timer. Instead of just plinking around shooting at whatever pace I want this adds a lot more fun into it. I can actually measure and improve.

There is a lot to absorb so I will definitely take time to read everyone's responses and try to absorb it all.

I should add that yesterday (and today) I unloaded an entire truckload of bricks by hand. We are putting a floor down in our woodshed so instead of pouring a slab we are just putting down big bricks from Home Depot. Someone is off getting the third load of bricks now as I type. I did that and moved the entire firewood pile into neat rows all by myself. I am still feeling it a little bit for sure. I will try this drill a lot going forward for sure to watch my progression. I also think my shirt and/or shirt management was not as good as it could be either.

I will pay more attention to my targets and the hit zone going forward but I can say that maybe 75% of the shots were inside of that circle. I bought some neat little magnets that you spray one color on, let it dry for a few minutes, put the magnet on then spray it with white. They are magnetic stencils so I can pick what size zones I want. I have a bunch in various sizes from 2" on up. Maybe I will just count my hits that are inside the circle next time. I have a lot of different sizes of those stencils so I can make my zones in a lot of different variety.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scw2

Based on standards I've seen thrown around, I'd say for cold on-demand performance a 2.0 sec standard is the bare minimum, 1.5 would be good, and 1.0 would be really great. For CCW, I would use high COM or a B8 center, not necessarily the full entire A zone of an USPSA target. Distances would probably be probably in the 5-7 yards range. I think you can work on improving your splits as well to help develop the ability to track sights at speed, work on recoil control, and such, but a good case could be made that for self defense incidents 0.5 sec splits would be better to allow for more situational assessment.

I'd say for your slightly longer distance and working with a smaller pistol your performance is above the average shooter, though if you carry the 365XL primarily you should elevate your performance to those standards and not use that as an excuse to shoot to a lower level. At your current level of skill, I think you'd be able to get to the 1.0-1.50 sec range fairly quickly with regular and consistent dry fire using the your shot timer to track progress and push yourself to get faster, more consistent and more efficient with your draw.

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Thanks! I definitely carry the 365XL every time I leave the house. Check out my follow up post because I got my times down a bit on round two. That said this is literally firing cold and having never had any kind of timed assessment. Even though I am out there by myself the clock adds pressure! :D

I don't want to fudge my performance at all. I am more of an Indian not the arrow type of person (within reason of course). The primary purpose of the timer was to add a fun factor to my shooting and it's already doing it's job. I have not ruled it out, but I have also not given two seconds to the idea of competing...so 'competition scores' don't really register in my brain. I have not ruled it out (competing) but for now it's all centered on concealed carry and fun factor.

To date I have 60 total rounds while using a timer so it did take some getting used to I have to admit. It's pretty cool now though because I can go out in my back yard spend 30 or 40 minutes going through 2-3 pistol mags and walk away feeling like I helped myself and without trying to shoot obnoxious amounts of ammo. It gives me something to work on other than just hitting the target.

If I haven't already said it the whole concept of adding in a timer was a great decision even for a recreational shooter such as myself.

After the performance in try #2 I think my baseline would be around 1.5-1.7ish. If you rolled me out of bed and we just went out to shoot I am confident I could hit that on the first try.

Aaah. Looks like you are shooting on steel?

In order to get more stringent standards you’ll probably have to do something like the “No Fail Drill” which adds distance with a speed component since a lot of the other difficult standards are shot closer.

Try this one:
https://youtu.be/6L8TNhE3Lac

There’s a difference between “can kind of hit something sometime” versus “can hit this 100% on demand.”

The center of a black B8 is 5.5” so your 6” circle will be close in size. You’ll just have to make sure all your shots are over half diameter inside.

Great drill here. If you can clean it, you’ll be in the upper skill of people here.