LPVOs in 2023 and beyond

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Originally Posted by LOKNLOD

That's spot on. The market for LPVOs has evolved into precision optics that you can turn down, instead of red dots that you can turn up. The top end on power continues to increase, the reticles keep getting more complicated, etc. etc. There's a marketing vs. demand self licking ice cream cone with features and its arms race on making the high-end power setup ever more.

All things being equal, having more raw power on the top end isn't a bad thing. But all things are rarely equal (and that equality drives the price into orbit).

I still like my Trijicon TR24 1-4x with the red triangle. It's a really good red dot with built-in magnifier. It's slick at 1x. It's handy at 4x. I can put a hurting on anything 0-300 in a hurry and much faster than just a dot alone once distance starts to outrun my eyesight.

For a more precision setup with longer distances, I have a 3-15x on a gun setup for that.

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Originally Posted by mrozowjj

I agree with this assessment. I have a 1-8 on my gun but inside of 300 yards I don't really need the 8x. It has all of these markings to help me get hits out to 900 but I don't know if I'll ever use them. If I had to ID a target I might like the extra magnification but all I ever shoot is paper and steel so I'm finding for my other guns a 1-6 is more than adequate. Honestly a 1-4 is fine but the 1-6s don't weigh or cost that much more so why not.

With 1 added addendum, if you have astigmatism the red dot + magnification might not be as ideal to you at longer distances as the LPVO. I'm lucky because I have a mild one but with a 3X the dot looks a crisp again so I can use it at longer rangers no problems but not everyone is this lucky. There's also the fact that some of the 1-4x weigh can weigh less than a red dot + magnifier.

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I kind of brushed past Lok’s post the first time but now that mrozow has quoted it, it really rings true to me.

Just like Godwin’s law says that all internet arguments eventually end with “Nazi”, it seems that all rifle shit eventually ends with “sniper”.

As I’ve said elsewhere, I just keep hoping (perhaps futilely, as I’ve come to realize that the AR world has moved on without me, however comically) someone takes all that technology that they are using to give the commercial market their MOAR and comes out with a truly compact, ultralight, 1-or-4x (vs 1-4) or 1-or-5x optic that’s astigmatism friendly, daylight bright, and doesn’t break the bank.

The parts and pieces are there, it would seem. When Aimpoint first showed the Micros at SHOT in Orlando eons ago they seemed primed to be able to offer a magnified version with some level of variable magnification in a package not much larger than the 30mm Aimpoint. Now with all the various MRDS it would seem that the tech has shrunk more than enough to do so, but the market just isn’t there as everyone pursues MOAR sniper.

And, having replaced the battery in my HD Aimpoint (an M2, I believe) recently and seeing a little more bloom than I recall previously, perhaps an Aimpoint emitter isn’t what I want in my fantasy optic anyway. While I was in the safe I took out my other AR with the TA33 wherein the tritium must be long-since dead and noted that I could still make out the reticule, and even more so once the (presumably also outdated) Surefire x300 was activated.

Most consumer and hobbiest products seem to go through a MOAR/smaller/cheaper/MOAR/smaller/cheaper development cycle so maybe we’ll one day put down the “sniper” rifles and the market will trend towards less magnification in favor of a more compact profile and lower cost.

I can dream.

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Originally Posted by rob_s

Just like Godwin’s law says that all internet arguments eventually end with “Nazi”, it seems that all rifle shit eventually ends with “sniper”.

As I’ve said elsewhere, I just keep hoping (perhaps futilely, as I’ve come to realize that the AR world has moved on without me, however comically) someone takes all that technology that they are using to give the commercial market their MOAR and comes out with a truly compact, ultralight, 1-or-4x (vs 1-4) or 1-or-5x optic that’s astigmatism friendly, daylight bright, and doesn’t break the bank.

The parts and pieces are there, it would seem. When Aimpoint first showed the Micros at SHOT in Orlando eons ago they seemed primed to be able to offer a magnified version with some level of variable magnification in a package not much larger than the 30mm Aimpoint. Now with all the various MRDS it would seem that the tech has shrunk more than enough to do so, but the market just isn’t there as everyone pursues MOAR sniper.

Most consumer and hobbiest products seem to go through a MOAR/smaller/cheaper/MOAR/smaller/cheaper development cycle so maybe we’ll one day put down the “sniper” rifles and the market will trend towards less magnification in favor of a more compact profile and lower cost.

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I gotta savor that a while.

Once I hit middle age, putting any riflescope much over 9 or 10 power on one of my rifles was essentially just putting a sub-par spotting scope with a reticle on my rifle. "A good cat knows his limitations."

I’ve read this thread but still have questions on a relatively lightweight 1-4x or 1-6x that falls under $700.

What are presently the best options out there? Thanks.

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Originally Posted by GAP

I’ve read this thread but still have questions on a relatively lightweight 1-4x or 1-6x that falls under $700.

What are presently the best options out there? Thanks.

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My preference is a Steiner px4-i. It’s 650 at cameralandny right now. Daylight bright dot, small difference from my h2 on 1x, and a nice reticle on 4x.

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Originally Posted by PearTree

My preference is a Steiner px4-i. It’s 650 at cameralandny right now. Daylight bright dot, small difference from my h2 on 1x, and a nice reticle on 4x.

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not bad at just a hair over 17oz. What I still don't get is why someone can't make a 10oz 1-4 if these guys are making 18oz 1-10s...

there seem to be a few options. I'm presuming these are all just bundles?
https://cameralandny.com/shop?query=steiner%20P4xi

and this is the optic alone at $800?
https://cameralandny.com/shop/steine...steiner%20P4xi

with this price in cart
Attachment 69547

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Originally Posted by PearTree

My preference is a Steiner px4-i. It’s 650 at cameralandny right now. Daylight bright dot, small difference from my h2 on 1x, and a nice reticle on 4x.

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That is the one I’ve been eyeballing.. thanks for the head’s up.

I see they have a bundle with their p-series mount for an extra $100...

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Originally Posted by rob_s

not bad at just a hair over 17oz. What I still don't get is why someone can't make a 10oz 1-4 if these guys are making 18oz 1-10s...

there seem to be a few options. I'm presuming these are all just bundles?
https://cameralandny.com/shop?query=steiner%20P4xi

and this is the optic alone at $800?
https://cameralandny.com/shop/steine...steiner%20P4xi

with this price in cart
Attachment 69547

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That is crazy. Black Friday 2019 those were going for $400 with a mount. Pandemic pricing I guess?

The lightest 1-4 and 1-5x scopes out here are Leupold but they aren't "high speed low drag" and the reticle options kind of suck. Things like this:

https://www.leupold.com/vx-3hd-1-5-5x20-cds-zl-duplex

I also have the similar concern you have. Part of the reason I still have the NX8 1-8 on my AR is that it's 17 oz for a 1-8. I don't need the 8x but when 1-6x weigh 19oz I don't see the point in them unless cost is a concern... which is is which is why I'm looking for an alternative for my other guns. If the NX8 was cheaper I would run it on everything.

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Originally Posted by mrozowjj

https://www.leupold.com/vx-3hd-1-5-5x20-cds-zl-duplex

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I'd be perfectly happy with 4x instead of 5x on the top end at that size and weight if it came with a true 1x on the bottom.

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Originally Posted by OlongJohnson

I'd be perfectly happy with 4x instead of 5x on the top end at that size and weight if it came with a true 1x on the bottom.

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They have some 1-5xs but they cost and weigh more:
https://www.leupold.com/vx-5hd-1-5x2...ine-riflescope

It's 15oz instead of 10oz and an MSRP of $1000 instead of $500

No idea if either of them are any good.

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Originally Posted by GAP

I’ve read this thread but still have questions on a relatively lightweight 1-4x or 1-6x that falls under $700.

What are presently the best options out there? Thanks.

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If you can still find one, I very much like my Burris XTR II 1-5x scopes. Best $425 I have spent on gun accessories.

I think now, your options are pretty limited. The Steiner P4xi is a little overpriced but may come in below $700. The Vortex PST II 1-6x is pretty good and would likely be my choice.

I'm not impressed with the budget Primary Arms options other than the reticles. The Vortex Strike Eagles are likewise non-impressive.