Large LE agency in the Los Angeles area going to AR Pattern 9mm Rifle maybe?

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Originally Posted by jlw

I love to ask cops why they have a 50-yard zero on their rifles.

The usual answer is an attempt to parrot the 50/200 thing.

The real answer is that they only had a 50 yard range available.

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Most LE ranges in the U.S. are 50 yards.

Our agency qual includes 10 rounds from 100 yards. Using different ranges all over the country we solved the logistical issue by using a 50% reduced size target at 50y to simulate 100y when 100y is not available. For some reason I usually shoot slightly better on the standard target at 100y than with the “mini-me” target at 50y.

Primary use, barrel length and ammunition all factor into zero selection.

The issue is you are supposed to verify your 50/200 zero at both distances…

We went from 100y zeros to 50/200y zeros when we switched from 14.5” guns to 11.5”.

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Originally Posted by HCM

Most LE ranges in the U.S. are 50 yards.

Our agency qual includes 10 rounds from 100 yards. Using different ranges all over the country we solved the logistical issue by using a 50% reduced size target at 50y to simulate 100y when 100y is not available. For some reason I usually shoot slightly better on the standard target at 100y than with the “mini-me” target at 50y.

Primary use, barrel length and ammunition all factor into zero selection.

The issue is you are supposed to verify your 50/200 zero at both distances…

We went from 100y zeros to 50/200y zeros when we switched from 14.5” guns to 11.5”.

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The rifle is only zeroed at 200 yards if it is actually zeroed at 200 yards. Vertical isn't the issue; windage as. Shooting at 50 may very well predict the vertical impacts at 200, but it isn't going to account for marksmanship.

My rule of thumb is that the rifle is only zeroed at the distance it has actually been shot with the ammo being used. Everything else is a guess.

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Originally Posted by jlw

The rifle is only zeroed at 200 yards if it is actually zeroed at 200 yards. Vertical isn't the issue; windage as. Shooting at 50 may very well predict the vertical impacts at 200, but it isn't going to account for marksmanship.

My rule of thumb is that the rifle is only zeroed at the distance it has actually been shot with the ammo being used. Everything else is a guess.

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Hence:

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The issue is you are supposed to verify your 50/200 zero at both distances.

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My old agency has a 200 yard rifle range. We zeroed at 50 and shot at 200.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jlw

I love to ask cops why they have a 50-yard zero on their rifles.

The usual answer is an attempt to parrot the 50/200 thing.

The real answer is that they only had a 50 yard range available.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by HCM

Most LE ranges in the U.S. are 50 yards.

Our agency qual includes 10 rounds from 100 yards. Using different ranges all over the country we solved the logistical issue by using a 50% reduced size target at 50y to simulate 100y when 100y is not available. For some reason I usually shoot slightly better on the standard target at 100y than with the “mini-me” target at 50y.

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Originally Posted by Coyotesfan97

My old agency has a 200 yard rifle range. We zeroed at 50 and shot at 200.

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I'm a fan of the 100 yard zero because of the nice trajectory for LE.

Having said that, I'm not totally sold on giving officers the idea that they can take shots much beyond 50 yards under most circumstances.

It's my belief that unless the officer has been visually tracking the guy from much closer, and is certain the guy still remains a threat, it is a little hard to ID threats at 100 yards to make shoot no shoot decisions through iron sights or an unmagnified optic.

Heck set these up at 50 yards and have shooters determine which one is a threat:

Attachment 114796

Of course it is a different matter if the subject is shooting at them - identification of threat is a no brainer.

Additionally, it seems sometimes when we think of engagements we tend to think of them as being stationary. A target bobbing/weaving/running target at 100 yards is obviously going to be much more difficult to ID and hit than one at 50.

As always, the answer is training. Training in both marksmanship and decision making.

The hardware (patrol rifle) is capable of performing satisfactorily at 100 or 200 yards, the software (officer) is the limiting factor.

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Originally Posted by DDTSGM

As always, the answer is training.

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And optics.

We zeroed M4s at 50, but shot out to 100. Some of us shot farther than that on our own. The trajectory was correct out to 400-450 (the farthest I ever shot an M4). However, some our carbines had irons only, and others had Trijicon Reflex, neither of which helped ID a target. In the case of the Reflex, it hampered it. If I expected officers to take shots at 100 or more, I'd really want LVPOs.