Seems everywhere I look (slight exaggeration), folks are talking about Beretta pistols. I see an Elite II going for crazy prices on GunBroker, and lots of mention of this new 92FS Compact.
What gives?
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Seems everywhere I look (slight exaggeration), folks are talking about Beretta pistols. I see an Elite II going for crazy prices on GunBroker, and lots of mention of this new 92FS Compact.
What gives?
what gives is that Beretta used to make great pistols (basically any -G config 92 version) and they stopped. So they are obviously very expensive and in demand.Quote:
Originally Posted by GJM
As for the M9A1 Compact, I don't really know. I guess maybe people just want to see something new.
If it's between a non G Beretta and a Sig, I'll take the Sig every time.
this Elite is at $1,525 with 4 days left to run on the auction:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=332801377
Holy shit! I have had a customers for some time now to make an AIWB and thought it was some goofy 2-tone Beretta from the late 90's that no one liked or cared for.
They're about as cult-y as a Beretta gets, dude.Quote:
Originally Posted by orionz06
I've been pondering one of the nice Berettas for a little bit; comments like JV's above and reading about GJM's re-discovery of the Sig keep me from spending money.
Count me as one of those nuts who doesn't mind the safety on a FS Beretta. I have longish thumbs and I train to off safe when I draw, much like a 1911 thumb safety. That said I use my G model the most...
Here's my thought: I don't want a manual safety on the hammer fired DA/SA, especially one that's difficult for me to reach. Other than the super smooth slide to frame feel, what does the 92 do better than a 226? For me, nothing. Since all of the regular Sigs are G/"decock only", and their readily available, it's a no brainier.Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleLebowski
Also, with the E2 grips, I can more easily reach the mag release than on a 92.
For me, the Beretta has always fit my hands better than the Sig. I can use all the controls and I don't neuter the slide release when I grip the pistol.
I'm not sure why the Beretta is suddenly gaining favor again. The Beretta 92 was the first handgun I ever purchased, largely because I'd been fantasizing about it since I first encountered the Die Hard and Lethal Weapon franchises. I mean, if you can't watch that scene where John McClane wastes all those bad guys in the airport (who had just efficiently wiped out an entire SWAT team, but couldn't kill one guy armed with a pistol for some reason) with the 92 without feeling at least some bite from the cool factor, then there's no light in your soul.
Shortly after finding out people talked about guns on the internet, I was treated to all kinds of stories about how the Beretta 92 shattered like plate glass if you fired more than X rounds through it. Or how it beheaded like 4 dozen SEAL operators when slides broke. Etc. I got so intrigued I actually started looking for documentation of all these horrors and found that the situation wasn't quite what the internet said it would be. (Shocker) So I wrote a little ditty about it.
The myth of the plate-glass Beretta seemed to die down a bit, and once the military stopped using Checkmate mags the furor seemed to die down.
If they are experiencing a resurgence in popularity, possible explanations would be:
- After a few incidents where somebody has managed to injure (or in some cases even kill) themselves with a striker fired handgun that has a ~ 5 pound trigger and no safety, some people are beginning to think that there really is more to this safety thing than boogerhook and bangswitch.
- Potentially being bored with Glocks.
- A sort of hipster retro-cool cache attached to a much maligned pistol
- Belated recognition that they really were pretty darn good guns
When I was heavy into Berettas, that was one of the pimp-daddy, gotta-have-it Beretta options. I actually have a Gen I Elite, but I got into the 1911 black hole before I could snag an Elite II.Quote:
Originally Posted by GJM
The holy grail was:
Attachment 1349
Steel frame, frame-mounted safety, do want.
I'll be in my bunk.Quote:
Originally Posted by TCinVA
I came to the Beretta after growing up with the 1911, and it was primarily an economy thing. I got my first Beretta for a steal of a deal, and 9mm was a heck of a lot cheaper than .45 when I was a poor college student. Eventually, I found that the much maligned DA trigger wasn't all that bad with a proper tune-up, the gun ran more reliably than most of my 1911s, and the G-model controls made the safety a non-issue.
Over the years I've looked at other designs, but the Sig doesn't fit my hand well (and lately QC issues have me completely turned off from them), the HK, Walther and M&P lines are too expensive for a complete switchover compared to any theoretical performance gains I might or might not acquire, Glocks have that silly grip angle and XDs have a bad reputation for reliability/durability.
I wish I had another Elite I. They really are outstanding guns, though holster options are getting harder and harder to find. I was lucky enough to get an MTAC before they stopped offering them for the Brigadier-slide 92s, and I still have a late-90s-vintage Blade Tech belt holster for IDPA/IPSC.
To add my thoughts to TCinVA as always excellent post.
I first started shooting them when I joined the National Guard in college and shot on the marksmanship team there. I then became a tanker so it was my assigned personal weapon for the rest of my Army career. I liked it the first time I shot it, and I have continued to like it ever since. While I (against the advise of the learned members of this forum) tend to stray to other platforms year to year, and while my current issued gun is a LEM, the Beretta is to me, the "Alpha" of pistols. It is the one that I am most comfortable with, it is the one that I shoot best, and it is the one that makes me feel warm inside. The added bonus for me is that in the mid-90s, I was able to score quite a few standard capacity magazines and collect key replacement parts, so I have a large support system for the platform, which has been helpful in ban states. I have never had any problem with the slide mounted safety though I do prefer the G variant for its simplicity factor.
The Beretta 92 platform has done everything for me I could ask for. I have heard all the stories, lived through the check mate disaster, and having been responsible for a armor company's worth of M9s, have seen how they are cared for by US Army "armorers", and based on my experience which is limited compared to many, but a lot greater than most shooters, the M9 has proven to be a superbly reliable and dependable gun when properly cared for and supplied with quality magazines. To counter a previous post, while I am a fan of Sigs and have been "dating" a SP2022 for the last 2 years, there is nothing a Sig can do (or an HK for that matter) that a Beretta can't do just as well for me.
As for the resurgence in popularity, I think the fact that a lot of troops are coming back and looking wanting to buy the gun they carried is a big factor. While the "gun guy" vets will probably gravitate to glocks and HKs, most vets are not gun guys and will simply buy what they know. Also, there is probably a good sized portion of the civilian population that wants what the .mil has for no other reason than that. The gun is still widely seen in Hollywood productions and in a world of blocky guns, the Beretta is a sexy girl.
I have shot a lot of rounds out of a Beretta and it is a gun I wish I had never gotten rid of. It is like the M4, I have played with a SCAR, ACR, and other 5.56 rifles and I still grab the M4 over any other rifle. It is what I am comfortable with. The gun I lusted for was a 92FS Centurian for a long time and never could find one.
Just ordered a Beretta 92FS Police Special myself. NIB w/3 15rd mags.
I totally get the love, even though the trigger reach makes it a non gun for me. My friends all based their firearms purchases on The Killer* and Die Hard, and so I've put a lot of rounds through 92s. Bill Wilson *really* likes them, and so do a lot of very knowledgeable people. If I ever stumble across the single stack I may succumb.
*for me, it was 'Hardboiled,' but I fortunately have been able to resist the urge to buy a couple of Toks.
My first duty gun, and one I bought when we transitioned to H&Ks. Probably still tops of my all-time love list of personally-owned guns. It just works and fits my hand well. I remember reading Walt Rauch's book years ago and he said something like your best gun was the one you found yourself reaching for when you thought you might need a gun. For a long time, that was my trusty Beretta 92.Quote:
Originally Posted by WDW
I had a conversation with Bill Rogers a month or so ago, where he was telling me how the Sig 226 was his favorite pistol. And, he said the only pistol he shot better, was a Beretta!
Wow, I love that. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by GJM
Two simple solutions for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by JV
1. Josh's (AGW) low profile safety lever. This lever is really for just using to decock and that's it. It makes the slide almost totally smooth and you'll never accidentally engage the safety with it. The only advantage a G has over this is one less step on the range since it automatically goes back to the fire ready position. Actually, if it was a choice between this lever and a G model, I'd rather have this lever. Now the ideal would be a G model with this lever.
2. An extended (E2) mag catch. I've actually been using the extended oversized mag catch and I don't even have to break my grip at all to drop the mag.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...ps70d66cbe.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...ps90c068d4.jpg
I've owned a Sig 225, 220, and 226 (the 226 had 15k+ rounds through it before sold it, remember the crazy rattle it had?), and nothing feels as smooth and slick as a Beretta. Also, in my limited experience, nothing I've tried has ever been as reliable as a Beretta. Also, nothing looks as good as Beretta. :)
God Bless,
David
So what pistol would you get as a base gun to send to AGW?
Considering he can convert a FS to G i've been thinking of an M9A1.
My personal opinion is a full-size aluminum framed Beretta.Quote:
Originally Posted by GJM
I don't have any problem CCWing with a full-size Beretta so I don't see the point in the compacts.
Then you've got to decide if you want something that's current production or an overpriced discontinued model. Personally, I'd opt for a current production model.
Then you've got to decide which model, i.e, rail or no rail, dovetailed or integral front sight, flared or non-flared mag well, checkered or serrated front and back-straps, etc.
Again, personally, I like the slide and frame refinements of the 92A1. The only thing the frame lacks is a flared mag well. My choices in order of preference are:
92A1 - Most updated frame and slide design.
M9A1 - Older frame design, but has flared mag well and front and back-strap checkering.
92FS - No rail and integral front sight, but I'd still be happy with one. Lots of holster options.
Once you get your gun, Josh can do almost anything you want to it, that's when the fun begins.
God Bless,
David
Yea, but the Sig maintains factory support since it was built "correctly" from the start. I don't know how the modified safety would impacts those that shoot gun games.Quote:
Originally Posted by David B.
I'm not sure if I'd be comfortable saying you'll never accidentally engage it, I want my draw to disengage it (or try to) - whether it was supposed to be on or not. Making it a low profile lever just makes that harder since I can't reach the OEM one anyway.
Oh yes. It was bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by David B.
This is something that needs to be considered. Philosophical ideas come into play.Quote:
Originally Posted by JV
I know I'm never going to be a national competitor. I don't know if I possess the proper DNA and I certainly don't want to put the time, money, and effort into training like that. So I do some local club matches both sanctioned and non-sanctioned USPSA just for the fun of it and to improve my skills.
My modifications, i.e., speed-bump trigger, extended mag release, etc., preclude me from production division. Therefore I have to shoot in limited division. Obviously this puts me at a competitive disadvantage shooting both minor power factor and with a gun that really belongs in production division. Fellow competitors often marvel at the choice I make and don't quite understand it.
I can easily take the mods out and replace them with stock parts and my performance wouldn't diminish much if any at all. However, the modifications I have give me optimal ergonomics and makes what I do with the pistol a little easier.
So philosophy number 1 is that I'm willing to use aftermarket parts even though there isn't a significant performance benefit, but because they feel better in my hands they are on the gun.
Philosophy number 2 is that I CCW with the same gun I train and compete with. Therefore I will sacrifice the competitive "fairness" component in favor of doing everything with the same gun. At the end of the day it's more important for me to have the confidence and competence with my carry gun than be concerned about whether a charlie is worth 3 or 4 points.
These are the mods I've done to my 92A1:
Cut to 4.7" and re-crowned barrel by Josh at AGW
AGW Speed-bump trigger
AGW Low profile custom carry safety /decock lever.
Steve Bedair stainless guide rod.
E2 extended mag catch.
E2 skeletonized hammer and D spring.
Aluminum flush hammer spring cap and dog bone pin
Dawson Fiber Optic front and Novak Custom rear sight. (.270 high and .155 wide).
Custom (by me) reshaped and stippled vertec grips.
CCR CPII plated slide and barrel.
Trigger job (by me).
That last thing I'm going to do is have Josh flare the mag well in the next month or so.
God Bless,
David
Forgive my ignorance but what is the speed bump trigger?
A trigger that limits overtravel, but not with a screw. It has a little bump on the back that is filed to fit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suvorov
A little bit of awesome. I have one of the old LTT speed bumps on my Elite, and it makes a small but noticeable difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suvorov
Given my recently found love for TDA pistols with metal frames, this thread is a problem.
+1.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOM
Threads like this is why I can't have money.
No kidding. I just sold a buddy a shotgun, and today "re-invested" that money into a mint Beretta 92G that I snagged off GunBroker.Quote:
Originally Posted by NickA
Congrats on the purchase. Looking forward to your thoughts after owning it.Quote:
Originally Posted by GJM
God Bless,
David
Here it is:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=333150331
What should I do to it? Allegheny for the work?
Shoot it!Quote:
Originally Posted by GJM
Perhaps you'll find it perfect as is.
That's a nice Beretta. It's an older model with the straight dustcover and non-radiused back-strap. I've always liked the straight dustcover look.Quote:
Originally Posted by GJM
The first thing you should do even before shooting it is get a D spring from Brownells. It's a hammer spring made for DAO (D models), but has also been incorporated into other models and works well with the skeletonized hammer, which is the same weight as a D model hammer.
The D hammer spring will reduce your trigger pull by a few pounds. It really is a must since the stock spring comes with an 11-12lb DA pull.
Other than that, just shoot it and see what you like and don't like about it.
God Bless,
David
Speaking of Berettas, am I correct in thinking that it's considered acceptable to carry one off safe, hammer down? Because there's a long heavy double action pull anyways and the safety just gets in the way. I was carrying one this way during a recent class and a few people told me my gun was off safe and it was getting tiresome to explain the whole situation to them. The instructor didn't say anything about it.
Is there some strategy to make it clear that it's off safe on purpose so people don't bug me about it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTalnzcO0xk
Sure is considered acceptable, however something to consider would be to sweep the safety regardless in case it clicks on inadvertently. I personally think it's a liability, and if I had known about AGW doing FS>G conversions I would most likely still own my Beretta 92.
Yes, it's perfectly acceptable. Lots of PD's carried the 92 that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by jumpthestack
...I assume that at least some of these people were packing Glocks or similar weapons, yes?Quote:
I was carrying one this way during a recent class and a few people told me my gun was off safe and it was getting tiresome to explain the whole situation to them.
Smile and nod, my friend. Smile and nod.
Then at least he/she knew what they were doing.Quote:
The instructor didn't say anything about it.
There's a way to smile politely and answer "Yes" to the question of "do you know your safety is off?" that communicates "I do, and I'm not interested in explaining to you why." At least I think I've been polite when I've done it. Others may have thought I was being a jerk.Quote:
Is there some strategy to make it clear that it's off safe on purpose so people don't bug me about it?
LE context here.
I never utilized or advocated use of the manual safety except in areas of increased likelihood of a gun grab on an exposed gun, and obviously where regs required it. Otherwise, the safety was to be kept in the off position. Officers are taught to sweep the safety on presentation and in handling to ensure that the safety remains off. I recommend and prefer decock-only (G) variants of Berettas and similar pistols for that context of use.
Just picked up a 92fs stainless(not inox) about a week ago. I carry mine off safe and I guess if someone asks I'll just tell them it's a decocker. I don't really see the saftey as a liability, I had a situation where I forgot to flip it back up and I got a dead trigger, added about .3 to my press out/first shot. I know to some people that bothers them but .3 is pretty acceptable for the shoot ability/ how much I like this pistol. Having said that I am also sending it in to Josh to get a few things done including having him putting his low profile safety in. I think the biggest problem I'm having right now transitioning from a glock is the reloads, driving a magazine into a polymer frame is a little more forgiving that a metal frame.