Elite UFC fighter vs. crazy = stalemate

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Originally Posted by Mitch

Then don’t start BJJ, get a blue belt, and quit.

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A blue or purple who rolls with all the newbies and whites is probably just as prepared for the real world as a black belt who usually rolls with purple and up.
Expecting the unexpected is best learned from people who are the most likely to do the unexpected.

Well rounded fighter:
Physical fitness base. A significant strength and cardio advantage are the equivalent of years of skills training.
Muay Thai or boxing for standup.
A good wrestling base to defend takedowns.
Fundamental Judo to toss your opponent to the ground.
BJJ blue for the ground game.

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Originally Posted by Mitch

Then don’t start BJJ, get a blue belt, and quit.

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Dont worry. Im 36. Started martial arts training at 6, tang soo do, jujitsu, judo. I earned my first black belt at 12, wrestled through high school in Illinois on varsity. Mccmap instructor, muay thai fights in Thailand, trained in Okinawa for a year, trained at the militich camp in davenport, bounced for over a decade, now i work in a psych hospital

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Originally Posted by 03RN

Dont worry. Im 36. Started martial arts training at 6, tang soo do, jujitsu, judo. I earned my first black belt at 12, wrestled through high school in Illinois on varsity. Mccmap instructor, muay thai fights in Thailand, trained in Okinawa for a year, trained at the militich camp in davenport, bounced for over a decade, now i work in a psych hospital

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Do you know Mark Hanssen? He's a contemporary and old training partner of Pat's. Davenport cop mid 50s now.

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Originally Posted by Clusterfrack

Got to wonder if so many years of training for and playing by MMA rules limited his approach.

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This plays a much bigger role than many are willing to entertain.

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Originally Posted by SouthNarc

Do you know Mark Hanssen? He's a contemporary and old training partner of Pat's. Davenport cop mid 50s now.

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Maybe by sight. Or my mom might. I was in high school back then. She was a personal trainer then at Depapes in rock island while she went to Palmer.

I have observed one 6 foot scrawny crazy guy break handcuffs and leg irons. Controlling him required a "group". I have personal knowledge of a 400 lb fat man man who could kick down the steel door of his solitary cell even while on Thorazine. They learned to bribe him with Tootsie Rolls. I really can not fathom an unarmed defense against such people.
I think shooting one with buckshot would kill him, but for a while he would not know he was dead.

This thread has some awesome info.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

Deleted.
I don't want to go off topic and talk war stories.

I think three of the most key takeaways from this incident are being overlooked.

First, we have to remember on this forum (and probably in out own circles) that we are the outliers. Because understanding criminal violence and being prepared for it is important to perhaps the majority of folks on this forum, we tend to talk in a bubble. We may spend a lot of time thinking and even training for theses things. The fact is most people don't. Based on the story and the actual words said by the good guy here, I doubt seriously if he spent more than a minute on thinking about self-defense, and even then, it was probably in the same superficial way that the typical gunowner does. I doubt he ever thought about coming into contact with someone who truly wanted to hurt him, and had some skills - either trained or artificially chemically induced - and what the consequences of that would be. Every reasonably respected trainer has told people over and over that trying to survive a sudden violent encounter when you have never prepared for it is not the best time to start. This is a good example of not understanding the contextual considerations that differ form his normal and understood routine world view. Listen to his shock at how the bad guy just kept fighting. Anyone who has read about any of a thousand different criminal attacks - the Jared Reston one, or Platt and Mattix's actions in Miami - would have been applying their skills in a different way, with a slightly different emphasis. This has exactly ZERO to do with "street vs sport", and entirely down to the personal worldview of the individual.

Second, there is a reason that a lot of us don't really emphasize teaching much striking, especially to people new to unarmed fighting. Striking is incredibly inconsistent and unreliable. Anyone who has spent much time training it can give example after example of hitting someone with a perfect shot and they shrug it off. Can it work? Sure, but it also fails far more often. This is a perfect example. A trained and elite professional fighter hit a smaller non-professional time after time, and it almost completely failed. It took a lot before the struggle ended. Imagine if a 140 pound woman, whose entire training of striking had been in a weekend seminar found herself in that situation. The ending would have been far worse. It is good to have a working, functional knowledge of striking, but even then, it is completely unreliable in it's effects, and you better be prepared for that eventuality. In other words, be ready for failure, and have plan B.

Third, just having a weapon, even a gun, in this situation would have meant little. We all make fun of the person who treats a gun as a talisman or a rabbit's foot, and that just having it without the software behind it is foolish, but there are a number of comments on this thread where some people seem to suggest that it is a talisman and that just being there would have produced a different outcome. Note that a weapon WAS involved at one point - a knife - and it served no purpose, because the mindset behind was not there. Any hardware is meaningless without an understanding of why it should be used. And further, I would argue that if the good guy did have the right mindset to use a weapon appropriately and correctly, it might not have mattered because then he would have used his own existing fighting skillset to end the violence much sooner regardless. This is not to dismiss the gun at all. Anyone who knows me will tell you how adamant I am that a gun is a key component of a self-defense plan, but let's not get into the view that the presence of one would have solved this any better without extra things being present as well.

What won the fight was dominant positional control - i.e. grappling. There are different end strategies that can flow form there, but position before the finish was paramount. And as a couple of people pointed out, make no mistake that the good guy DID win. The bad guy went to the hospital, and the good guy (and all his family) walked away without any injuries. Further, he will face no legal percussion, either criminally, or even in a wrongful death lawsuit brought by the criminal's surviving family. While we may want the encounter to have needed more quickly, or we can critique to learn of mistakes, do not mistake this for what it is - a complete and utterly successful self-defense situation where the good guy has no lasting damage, and the bad guy does,

https://twitter.com/jakewasikowski/s...2%2Fframe.html

Tardy in the posting, but newly learned of video for me.