More math, maybe interesting, maybe silly

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11-22-2021, 08:37 AM
mmc45414

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More math, maybe interesting, maybe silly

Over in the Great Shotgun vs AR talk... thread @GJM stated/pondered:

Quote:

Originally Posted by GJM

A 12 gauge Brenneke shotgun slug is about .68 caliber and 500 grains. I haven’t tried to figure how buckshot compares, but it is also a massive payload compared to each round of 5.56. I don’t think the discussion is whether buck and slugs are equivalent to a round of 5.56, because an informed person understands they are not, and round for round, the shotgun is significantly more decisive.

And it made me wonder also. I found a nice graphic on Lucky Gunner and did a little spreadsheet (I posted a couple versions in the other thread), and then I kept thinking of things and adding columns. Easy enough to look at the weight, but then I thought about cumulative square inch cross section, and just yesterday I wondered how that would factor to a hypothetical caliber. Not trying to perpetuate the either or discussion (why I started a separate thread, I am not selling any rifles...), but I kept a line for 5.56 just for comparison. I also just plucked out the most common sizes:

Attachment 80321

So not trying to prove or disprove anything, but wow... a load of buck would be like a single projectile of two inches or more.
This is just a discussion exercise, pretty sure my math is correct but might not be. :cool:
11-22-2021, 09:27 AM
OlongJohnson

A = pi()*r^2

You did

A = pi()*d^2

You failed to divide the diameter by 2 to get radius. Your areas are 4x greater and equivalent calibers are 2x greater than is correct.

Still crushing a lot of tissue.
11-22-2021, 09:49 AM
mmc45414

Quote:

Originally Posted by OlongJohnson

A = pi()*r^2

You did

A = pi()*d^2

You failed to divide the diameter by 2 to get radius. Your areas are 4x greater and equivalent calibers are 2x greater than is correct.

Still crushing a lot of tissue.

WHOOPS!!
Maybe there is no such thing as too much conformation bias!!

Con call in ten min, will fix and repost later.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
11-22-2021, 11:14 AM
mmc45414

1 Attachment(s)

Fixed?
I used one of the online calculators to do the caliber, and there may be some rounding involved.

Attachment 80338
11-22-2021, 05:11 PM
GyroF-16

Interesting post.
And useful to see why #1 Buck comes so highly recommended by those who test such things. All that mass (600+ gr).

Another useful comparison line might be subsonic 300 BLK (190 and 200 gr).
Interesting to imagine that #1 Buck delivers a similar mass at similar velocity as 3 x subsonic 300 BLK.
Only the #1 Buck would make 15-16 .30 cal holes, vs 3.
11-22-2021, 06:17 PM
mmc45414

Quote:

Originally Posted by GyroF-16

Interesting post.
And useful to see why #1 Buck comes so highly recommended by those who test such things. All that mass (600+ gr).

Another useful comparison line might be subsonic 300 BLK (190 and 200 gr).
Interesting to imagine that #1 Buck delivers a similar mass at similar velocity as 3 x subsonic 300 BLK.
Only the #1 Buck would make 15-16 .30 cal holes, vs 3.

What got me going on this was that #1 penetrates the magical 12" depth in gel and there are as many of them in one shell as in a Glock 19. Since I figured that out I bought two shotguns and am shopping for a third... :cool:
11-22-2021, 06:32 PM
GyroF-16

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmc45414

What got me going on this was that #1 penetrates the magical 12" depth in gel and there are as many of them in one shell as in a Glock 19. Since I figured that out I bought two shotguns and am shopping for a third... :cool:

Yep- glad I got some #1 FFC back before it was unobtainium. I only wish I’d bought more.
At least I had enough to pattern in my 1301T at 10 and 25 yds, and have enough on hand to use if necessary.

This place has sure cost me some money (1301T, all the Aridus and Magpul accessories, Tau shroud, Nordic tube, RDS, etc).
But also left me well-equipped if things go bad…
11-22-2021, 08:11 PM
gato naranja

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmc45414

What got me going on this was that #1 penetrates the magical 12" depth in gel and there are as many of them in one shell as in a Glock 19.

IIRC, #1 buck shot is the same as the English SSG, and that was pretty standard across the empire for use on soft-skinned predators at close ranges. They have some screwy ideas, but they have also had a pretty good handle on what it takes to blow the living daylights out of large mammals at really short distances.

We Americans tend to not like having bad critters get any closer than necessary or stalking game any closer than need be, and I think that is why #1 has taken the back seat to the bigger shot. Well, that and magnumitis.