Which laser technique do you use?

For those of us who have extensive experience with a pistol using a laser of some sort, whether CT (or other brand) laser grips or a light/laser combo, do you use them like RR (who clarified he got this concept from the developer of the CT grips) describes below? Or do you use them in some other manner?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevolverRob

So, let's bear a couple of things in mind.

Lasers, when used in conjunction with iron sights only - are not for target/dot focused shooting. They should be sighted in at the distance the iron sights are sighted to. The laser acts like a "beacon" for your front sight. Imagine shooting a blank black piece of paper and you're aiming for the center, you kind of get there, but it's not so precise, since the front sight is homogeneous with the paper. Now, take that piece of paper and put a white dot in the center, it's easier to aim at the center, right? Now, imagine that in low/moderate/dim light that the center of that target glows like the red or green beacon on a cellphone tower to alert planes. Aim for the glowing bit and press the trigger. That's how lasers are supposed to be used. A properly sighted laser 'halos' the front sight at the sighted distance (and provides a sun-spot like background at closer distances) thus providing a distinct aiming point.

Lasers can also be used for getting accurate hits from non-traditional positions (hip fire, etc.) Not ideal, but that adds utility to the gun.

Now, lasers change to target focus-type shooting when used in conjunction with the MRDS, you're looking for the dot in the window and the laser dot - they should overlap, they overlap, press the trigger, boom. It's an aiming point on an aiming point (maybe even with a third if you use iron sights that are 6 o'clock and your MRDS and laser are sighted to sit right on top of the sights). Sometimes when shooting, you lose the dot. So you have to go back looking for it. In this case, you might find the MRDS dot first or the laser grip dot first (or if you're like me, you tend to track the damn front sight and find it first and then you fight to find the damn dot still), when looking for the dot.

.…

There is no "focus switching" in these scenarios. There should never be "focus switching' for lasers. With sights, it's a front sight focus, dot acts as illuminated aiming point, with dot sight, target focus, find the dots, overlay them, press the trigger. Only in the scenarios where you use the dot from a non-traditional position might there be "focus switching" (and only in the iron sights + dot scenario).

To me, using the laser in this way kinda defeats the purpose of using a laser. I readily admit that there are different methods that work better for some than others so I’m curious what method everyone else uses.

My laser journey started back in early 2000 when my agency agreed to add CT grips or the laser max guide rod for anyone that wanted them (I think we had to kick in a portion of the cost) to our uniform allowance. I chose the CT grips and got a pair for my 228 (issued gun).

When I first started using them I tried to use them as RR describes above. It was slower than crap. I can vividly remember the first time I used them like that in an indoor USPSA match (more outlaw USPSA since they weren’t and aren’t USPSA legal). The comments from my squad mates were basically “you’re slower than shit with those” and the accompanying “you suck with those”. At the time I was a high B class shooter and was one of the better shooters that shot the Monday night matches, consistently coming in the top 20%.

I kept at it and over time realized that trying to use the sights and the laser together was a waste and started treating them like the 2 different sight systems they are. There’s no need to use the irons in conjunction with the laser. I went straight target focused and just learned to track the dot. I stopped bringing the pistol up to my eyes when using a laser. I brought it to about chin level.

When using the pistol at work (midnight shift), an added benefit was that by keeping the pistol at chin level, I had a much better view of bad guys’ hands while still being able to know I was on target.

Later in 2000, I went to a week long High Risk Personnel course at the Storm Mountain Training Center in WV. I took my CT equipped 228 with me to use. We did a night shoot during the course and I turned on the laser for the first time that week (pretty useless in the bright sun so I left it off). When the instructors saw I was using a laser they had some disparaging things to say. Their experience had been watching students use them and struggle. I used them the way I had figured out worked for me and never missed and was faster by a significant amount then anyone using straight night sights.

Eventually I got really good with the CT equipped 228 (and later a 226). I eventually got to be a high A Limited class USPSA shooter (using an STI 2011) and using a CT equipped (and sometimes using my DG switched SF x200 and shooting with the lights out) I could keep up with and consistently beat A and M class open shooters using my CT equipped duty gun and gear.

Since then I have always advocated using them as a separate sighting system. To me they’re like a red dot on a rifle. Why try to use a red dot in conjunction with the irons? Most people don’t teach that with a rifle so why do it with a pistol?

I have not played around with a laser/RDS equipped pistol so I can’t speak intelligently about that. Off the top of my head, I don’t think I’d want a laser activated by my grip if I was using a RDS. I’d rather have a toggle switch (ala SF x400 or Streamlight Trl2,etc) and I’d probably just use it if the RDS crapped out or when I needed it for a less than desirable shooting position (like shield work).

As I was searching for laser threads, I came across this link in another thread. It an article TLG wrote back in the day. Apparently he and I were learning about lasers at the same time. Just reminded me what an articulate guy he was and what a tremendous loss the shooting community suffered when he died.
http://greent.com/40Page/reviews/accessories/ctc1.htm

I bought my first X400 before I ever owned a firearm, so yeah, I've had lasers for a long time. You can see how I feel about lasers from this pic:
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1928/...74dfe596_o.jpg

I also shoot with the laser as an independent sighting system, whether it was with irons or if it's with the RDS. For the most part, the laser is only used for less precise shots (IPSC A-zone sized targets or larger), where speed is emphasized, due to the large offset of the laser from the bore for the X400 series (which I zero for 25 yards with my carry ammo); this is particularly true for shooting on the move IME. For context, I typically shoot between 50% to 60% in score at my local USPSA match, where the top shooter is generally one of the top open guys in the USA (he's on top 20 list for GM classifiers in open). The laser is also useful for helping me finding my dot even in unorthodox positions. I personally run a DG switch with my X400Us (with the light and laser coming up at the same time), as the laser no longer distracts me, though this was something that had taken some time and effort to train out of from my iron sight days. When using the laser to aim, I still present normally, I just no longer try to refine my sight picture enough to see the RMR dot; same thing when I was shooting with irons, in that it would still be in the general area of where I would shooting normally, just that I can push my presentation faster because the alignment can be much looser.

I'm apparently one of the few folks that did not have much of a training curve at all going from irons to an RDS on the slide; I suppose the laser might have played a role in that, as I have a pretty good index these days, good enough that I can close my eyes, draw, open my eyes, and have the dot in my vision the vast majority of the time.

I think that it would be much easier to use a laser in the manner as envisioned by the CT guys if running, well, the CT grips, as there's much less offset compared to the WML/laser combos, so that's certainly a consideration.

I agree w/ you thought that technique seems to waste the laser. In practicing w/ CTCs on pistols I use the laser only. For me the whole point of a laser is because you may not be able to see your sights well. Secondarily, the laser let's you see what the bad guy is doing w/ his hands. Thirdly, it allows you to shoot from very unusual positions since there is no need to align the sights between your eye and the target. I shoot from very close to a normal position w/ the pistol just an inch or two lower so I can look over the top of the pistol to see both the laser and the target.