Double sleeve grips

With the recent discussion on gi vs. no gi, I would like to bring something up involving sleeve grips and would love to hear any and all feedback. One thing I have been using in the gi that has proven very effective(particularly while working to pass guard) involves controlling both of the person on bottom's hands with pistol grips on their sleeves. After obtaining the pistol grips, I will twist the fabric slightly so that it tightens around their wrists as much as possible, allowing optimum control of what their hands can do. After doing this it then allows me to control their hands like I am gripping two joysticks. If I can get their hands close enough together, I can then transfer one of those pistol grips to my other hand so that I have control of both sleeves with a single pistol grip(if that makes sense). This ties up their hands completely as if they were wearing handcuffs. While in the gi this may only work for a few seconds before they escape, it has allowed me to pass guard many times including on those whose guards I normally could not pass with more traditional methods. However, when using this same approach while gun/knife grappling(particularly if they're wearing a hoodie), I find it to be that much more effective. This is especially true due to hoodies or other long sleeve garments having much stretchier material than a stiff gi.
This allows me to maintain that grip/position much longer or leaves their hands ompletely trapped. I find this very effective for landing ground and pound as they cannot protect their face due to the hands being bound up. This also allows very easy in fight weapons access and stops them from accessing theirs as well.
Another bonus if they have a hoodie on is that once I have that position, I can then wrap their hood around their neck completely, cinch it down and finish with a one handed choke while maintaining double sleeve grips with the other hand. This has proven to be VERY high percentage when rolling with training partners in plain clothes.
While I typically prefer cuff grips while playing guard in a gi, I like to use this too while playing guard in regular clothes. If they have stretchier material on such as a hoodie and I get cuff grips, they have the ability to step back and literally slip out of the hoodie so that I no longer have control. If I get pistol grips and tighten them with a slight twist, it wraps around their wrist and leaves them stuck in that hoodie or long sleeve shirt. I have been able to use that same double sleeve grip in that manner playing open guard which opens up in fight weapons access for me.
I am mainly curious if anyone has heard of this tactic and what the opinions on it were. It really helped me out in ECQC before as my training partner could not access any weapons while he was on the bottom due to his hands being bound up. Any and all feedback good or bad is much appreciated.

I have done it, taught it, and seen it done.

The main issue I have found is that it works decently against a noob, and not particularly well against someone with a bit of experience and near equal (or even superior) physical attributes. For example, no one is going to do that to any of my blue belts, and even very few of my white belts if they have at least a year of training in. It also tends to be tough to sink in that second hold when rolling with someone appreciably stronger.

So I put it in the category of "good to do when able" but is not something I count on, since I focus most of my tactics under the conceptual framework of that it has to work pretty consistently against someone who is bigger, stronger, tougher, faster, less injured, has initiative, is more aggressive, and is not injured in any way. It's certainly a viable tactic in it's niche.

Any time you can lock down an opponents hand or hands is a good one, but I must ask, what level or rank are your training partners? You can probably use tactics such as this on most people who are not very well trained. However, there are some really basic moves taught early in BJJ to defeat these types of grips.

Generally, if I am looking to isolate a hand, I will do my best to pass it behind their back or butt, and grab it with my other hand. You may wish to try this (while in someone’s guard) by grabbing a sleeve or wrist, then passing it underneath their butt to your other hand. You will have to create space to pass the hand underneath him or bait him into doing it for you, by rocking a certain way or threatening to open his guard.

Once you tie-up their arm behind them, you can shift your base back a bit and press their leg down with your elbow to open their guard or give your knee enough room to squeeze through. Your opponent will have an incredibly hard time recovering their arm, if at all.

Hopefully that makes sense.

I have to agree with GAP - a trained (even BJJ for six months) knows nothing good can come from someone grabbing his sleeve - break out of it immediately. In fact, the "break the grip" is so ingrained that with more training you can use that as a feint for a follow-up offensive move. I've passed hands from a Full-X position, but I've never seen it done when in someone ellse's guard - that would be interesting.

I think it is all part of the process. Like GAP asked, what rank was your training partner that you were doing this too in class, relative same weight or a lighter partner with less strength?

It really does not matter to much because that is the beautiful thing about training is you learn what works with some will not work with all, use it to filter stuff out and progress your training and learning.

Thank you for the feedback and I also agree that traditional pistol grips can be pretty easy to break. However, I have found that if I also twist the fabric so that it tightens up and constricts around their wrist this allows me to maintain those grips way better due to it limiting their wrist mobility so they can't circle out of it and break the grip. It causes their wrist to straighten so they cannot bend it very well. It can also be gi dependent as it really helps if there is extra slack/fabric on the gi sleeves. That's where I've found it to really shine with material like hoodies or long sleeve sweaters when gun/knife grappling.
Also, in terms of the question on rank I have been able to use that as a pass on some much larger purple and brown belts and started using this method when I was a blue belt.
This definitely has it's pros as well as cons though. It can catch people off guard due to being rather unorthodox but after doing it once or twice they typically won't allow me to get that double sleeve grip again. Also, the double sleeve grip can typically be broken in a few seconds but that is often enough time to pass the guard and use it to gain a better position. However, it has proven very difficult to escape with the stretchier fabric of a hoodie or sweatshirt specifically. Hopefully that helps make sense the way I explained it.

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Originally Posted by 4bullseyes

. However, I have found that if I also twist the fabric so that it tightens up and constricts around their wrist this allows me to maintain those grips way better due to it limiting their wrist mobility so they can't circle out of it and break the grip. It causes their wrist to straighten so they cannot bend it very well.

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that does not matter when breaking grips. I purposefully keep my wrists straight because it is stronger than a bent or turning wrist.

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Originally Posted by Cecil Burch

I have done it, taught it, and seen it done.

So I put it in the category of "good to do when able" but is not something I count on, since I focus most of my tactics under the conceptual framework of that it has to work pretty consistently against someone who is bigger, stronger, tougher, faster, less injured, has initiative, is more aggressive, and is not injured in any way. It's certainly a viable tactic in it's niche.

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Ok thanks and that is good to know. This post didn't show up at first for some reason when I made the thread a few days back. Has anyone been able to try this gun/knife grappling in "street" clothes? I have found it be much more useful in that realm vs a gi.