Vickers' 50/50 Rule for M4 Carbines

Respectfully, FredWyn...there are more than two camps than either those who laud Vickers...or Yeager, (of which there don't seem to be many around these parts). Stick around here for a while, read the threads and the thoughtful comments and you'll find that out for yourself.

Personally, I take good information where I find it. I'm not a cult of personality kind of guy...and I've trained with some pretty "been there / done that" sorts myself over the years, especially when I was on SRT. That meant SEALS, GSG9, SAS etc. But that's beside the point.

None of that necessarily makes me an expert, in fact I know I'm not one. And for that matter, your credentials as an author and an educator do not make you one...at least not in this particular field. There are plenty of authors and educators, some here even, and most do not qualify as experts nor any more capable of evaluating the expertise of a particular trainer or SME.

If credibility on this site matters to you, take your time learning the personae dramatis and don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

We value good information here...especially when it comes from a credible source.

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Originally Posted by blues

There are more than two camps when it comes to those who laud Vickers ... Yeager.

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If you actually are willing to regard James Yeager as a legitimate and reliable trainer, there is nothing I can do for you, nor do I care. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by FredWyn

If you actually are willing to regard James Yeager as a legitimate and reliable trainer, there is nothing I can do for you, nor do I care. Good luck.

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You actually need to read more and post less. I am no fan of Yeager but that is irrelevant to the point I am making.


ETA: Never mind. I take it you're only here to troll and I will just put your posts on ignore from here on out.

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Originally Posted by blues

You actually need to read more and post less. I am no fan of Yeager but that is irrelevant to the point I am making.

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Sure, I know it is cool and everything to bully a new guy. All in good fun, of course.

Your point is not taken.

Carry on.

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Originally Posted by FredWyn

If you actually are willing to regard James Yeager as a legitimate and reliable trainer, there is nothing I can do for you, nor do I care. Good luck.

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Ok, was this type of reply necessary?

I can load my PMAGs to 30 and still push them down as he does, should I still download them? I think I’ll leave them fully loaded as designed, I like to live dangerously.

I think a 3-month “waiting period” for new member posting (unless you have a sponsor), would help reduce the recent nonsense... back to lurking.

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Originally Posted by FredWyn

Sure, I know it is cool and everything to bully a new guy. All in good fun, of course.

Your point is not taken.

Carry on.

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You put words in his mouth and he responded. Read his post and it's obvious he means there's a middle ground and people can disagree without bashing the person they are disagreeing with. I hope you figure that out as well or your time here will likely be short. Blues isn't "bullying" you, you misunderstood his message.

As far as the topic, we're required by policy to fully load each magazine. We were originally allowed to download by two but, like most things, the lowest common denominator fucked it up for everyone. Crime Lab and Homicide like to know how many rounds each officer fired and people weren't sure how many they had loaded originally...so now all mags must be topped off.

I, of course, top off. I also test each duty mag and make sure it inserts on a closed bolt with no issue. I don't use duty mags for training, I use training mags for training. I know not everyone does, I watched an officer be unable to complete his tac-reload after a police action. He obviously hadn't vetted his spare mag properly. A downloaded mag would have helped him, though it made no difference in that instance since the offender was dead.

If I had to write a policy for "the masses" I would mirror Vicker's recommendation. 28 rounds is just easier. Stripping off 2 guarantees you didn't cram 31 in there, makes it easier to seat, and the cost of 2 rounds is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by GAP

Ok, was this type of reply necessary?

I can load my PMAGs to 30 and still push them down as he does, should I still download them? I think I’ll leave them fully loaded as designed, I like to live dangerously.

I think a 3-month “waiting period” for new member posting (unless you have a sponsor), would help reduce the recent nonsense... back to lurking.

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As I've made very clear, do whatever you want. There is wisdom in not loading them to 30 rounds. If you don't agree, fine, to each his own. I don't know any LEO carrying multiple mags who would in any way experience a problem downloading to 28.

But as for Yeager...seriously? After he had his concealed carry licensed yanked by TN for threatening to kill people? And after his company has has numerous very serious safety issues exposed, such as putting a photographer in front of students shooting handguns, and the incident where his company was banned from a facility because an an instructor caused a negligent discharge, oh, not to mention his act of incompetence and cowardice that cost people his lives in Iraq, and his firing from local law enforcement in TN, really? You going to defend this idiotic cretin???

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Originally Posted by FredWyn

I have gotten to know Larry Vickers via training classes I've taken from him whenever he is within driving distance of my home. I know some people love to trash the guy, and these are, forgive me, the same Internet Idiots who troll about various gun forums, usually self-taught, self-appointed experts, or people who think James Yeager is the gold standard for all things firearms.

I will simply say this. In my many conversations with Mr. Vickers, I've come away, every time, with a lot of education. I believe strongly in the principle that one should shut up and listen, take it all in, and learn. Vickers is a real-deal subject-matter expert on those areas of "all things firearms" that he is all about.

His training classes are superb. I'm a professional educator/author myself and I know a skilled craftsman as he goes about his business. If anyone has the chance to take Vickers for a class: do it.

His books are the very finest books out there. His classes are superb. He never fails to give credit where credit is due and always has the highest regards for other professional firearm professionals.

That's all I have to say about that.

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You don't need to read LAV's resume to us. 99% of the members of PF are familiar with him and many have taken classes from him.

LAV has been a controversial figure in the firearms community for a long time. That's not an insult toward him at all. His personality can be quite polarizing though. LAV has earned his reputation through the years by stepping on his dick a few times and not issuing any clarification or an apology. The "You've been warned" incident, his comments about the Gadget, and his over the top dramatic negative review of the CZ P10 are a few that come to mind. He also kinda flipped out at SHOT over not being able to setup his whole Tac TV recording studio in a booth. Things like this are what caused some people to have negative feelings towards him.

I've also seen people be quite unfair towards him, especially concerning his weight, which is something he's worked on and deserves a kudos for getting himself into shape. There will always be people who will talk shit about guys like LAV, Pat McNamara, and other door kicking face shooters with big personalities while they sit at home on their computer having accomplished little in life.

I appreciate LAV and have learned a lot from him over the years. His knowledge base on many topics is almost unmatched. His books are well written, and I still pull up Tactical Arms and Tac Tv episodes on youtube from time to time because I always enjoyed them. It's possible to like a person and respect them immensely while recognizing that they're not perfect and make mistakes.

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Originally Posted by Casual Friday

It's possible to like a person and respect them immensely while recognizing that they're not perfect and make mistakes.

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Um...ok.

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Originally Posted by FredWyn

Thanks, Captain Obvious.

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Shut the fuck up Boomer.