Testified in an Ohio House Committee hearing yesterday about our CCW law

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02-27-2020, 08:01 PM
Lon

Testified in an Ohio House Committee hearing yesterday about our CCW law

So yesterday was a first for me. I testified before the Ohio House Federalism Committee. They were having a hearing to hear testimony about HB 425. This bill changes the part of our CCW law that requires a citizen with a Concealed Handgun License to notify an LEO that they are armed if they are stopped for a traffic stop or some other “law enforcement purpose”. We are one of the few states that require this.

I have issues with the way this law was written and have been getting seriously pissed at the State FOP lodge for there constant opposition to pro-gun legislation. So I decided to speak my mind. The State FOP guys were there and gave opposition to the bill. From what I was told, I’m pretty sure I’m the first LEO that has testified as a proponent of this bill and a bunch of others.

The State FOP guys told the Committee that they represent 25k+ members and that they oppose the bill for Officer safety reasons.

I know we have some OH LEOs here and was wondering your thoughts on the matter. I plan on going to another hearing in the future and doing some research. I’ve got 2 questions for you:

1. Is the notification requirement necessary for Officer safety reasons?

2. Are you a member of the FOP?

Here’s a link to the bill: http://search-prod.lis.state.oh.us/s.../00?format=pdf

And a link to all of the testimony from the hearing (my testimony starts between 13-14 minutes):http://www.ohiochannel.org/collectio...lism-committee

Feel free to answer if you’re an LEO from another state, but please let me know what state.
02-27-2020, 08:26 PM
KellyinAvon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lon

So yesterday was a first for me. I testified before the Ohio House Federalism Committee. They were having a hearing to hear testimony about HB 425. This bill changes the part of our CCW law that requires a citizen with a Concealed Handgun License to notify an LEO that they are armed if they are stopped for a traffic stop or some other “law enforcement purpose”. We are one of the few states that require this.

I have issues with the way this law was written and have been getting seriously pissed at the State FOP lodge for there constant opposition to pro-gun legislation. So I decided to speak my mind. The State FOP guys were there and gave opposition to the bill. From what I was told, I’m pretty sure I’m the first LEO that has testified as a proponent of this bill and a bunch of others.

The State FOP guys told the Committee that they represent 25k+ members and that they oppose the bill for Officer safety reasons.

I know we have some OH LEOs here and was wondering your thoughts on the matter. I plan on going to another hearing in the future and doing some research. I’ve got 2 questions for you:

1. Is the notification requirement necessary for Officer safety reasons?

2. Are you a member of the FOP?

Here’s a link to the bill: http://search-prod.lis.state.oh.us/s.../00?format=pdf

And a link to all of the testimony from the hearing (my testimony starts between 13-14 minutes):http://www.ohiochannel.org/collectio...lism-committee

Feel free to answer if you’re an LEO from another state, but please let me know what state.

Thank you Lon. I'm not a LEO, I am a retired USAF SMSgt who has testified in support of 2A issues at the Indiana Statehouse. I've often been on the opposite side of issues from the FOP, Police Chiefs Association, Sheriff's Association, etc.

Indiana does not require notification. I'd personally be more worried about felons than those with handgun licenses.

Thank you again.
02-27-2020, 08:39 PM
Redhat

So what are the pros / cons of notification vs no notification...from an officer safety standpoint?
02-27-2020, 08:45 PM
blues

We have a duty to notify in NC. I don't have an issue with it, personally.
02-27-2020, 08:55 PM
Lon

Quote:

Originally Posted by blues

We have a duty to notify in NC. I don't have an issue with it, personally.

Can you point me to the relevant criminal code? Curious to see how it compares to ours.
02-27-2020, 08:59 PM
TheNewbie

Excellent job! I’m an officer in Texas and I agree with all you said.
02-27-2020, 09:01 PM
Lon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redhat

So what are the pros / cons of notification vs no notification...from an officer safety standpoint?

The FOP says it’s necessary for us to know who has guns on them. I assume everyone does. My real problem is with how they worded the law.

Here’s the law in question (current version):
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.126v1
02-27-2020, 09:01 PM
TheNewbie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redhat

So what are the pros / cons of notification vs no notification...from an officer safety standpoint?

The only pro is if you let me know and I then see it, I may be less startled than if I just see it. However I don’t find the mere presence of a gun something to freak out over and point to someone as a criminal. Whether they have a ccw or not, it’s the totality of the circumstances that dictates reaction.
02-27-2020, 09:02 PM
Lon

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNewbie

Excellent job! I’m an officer in Texas and I agree with all you said.

Thanks. Does TX have a notification requirement?
02-27-2020, 09:02 PM
blues

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lon

Can you point me to the relevant criminal code? Curious to see how it compares to ours.

I never worked as an LEO in the state, so my knowledge is limited to my obligation as a CCW / LEOSA carrier. We have a few NC LEOs here that can fill in more on the criminal code side.

Quote:

§ 14-415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.

(a) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law. The person shall carry the permit together with valid identification whenever the person is carrying a concealed handgun, shall disclose to any law enforcement officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun when approached or addressed by the officer, and shall display both the permit and the proper identification upon the request of a law enforcement officer. In addition to these requirements, a military permittee whose permit has expired during deployment may carry a concealed handgun during the 90 days following the end of deployment and before the permit is renewed provided the permittee also displays proof of deployment to any law enforcement officer.

(b) The sheriff shall issue a permit to carry a concealed handgun to a person who qualifies for a permit under G.S. 14-415.12. The permit shall be valid throughout the State for a period of five years from the date of issuance.

(c) Except as provided in G.S. 14-415.27, a permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following:

(1) Areas prohibited by G.S. 14-269.2, 14-269.3, and 14-277.2.

(2) Areas prohibited by G.S. 14-269.4, except as allowed under G.S. 14-269.4(6).

(3) In an area prohibited by rule adopted under G.S. 120-32.1.

(4) In any area prohibited by 18 U.S.C. § 922 or any other federal law.

(5) In a law enforcement or correctional facility.

(6) In a building housing only State or federal offices.

(7) In an office of the State or federal government that is not located in a building exclusively occupied by the State or federal government.

(8) On any private premises where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises.

(c1) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun on the grounds or waters of a park within the State Parks System as defined in G.S. 143B-135.44.

(c2) It shall be unlawful for a person, with or without a permit, to carry a concealed handgun while consuming alcohol or at any time while the person has remaining in the person's body any alcohol or in the person's blood a controlled substance previously consumed, but a person does not violate this condition if a controlled substance in the person's blood was lawfully obtained and taken in therapeutically appropriate amounts or if the person is on the person's own property.

(c3) As provided in G.S. 14-269.4(5), it shall be lawful for a person to carry any firearm openly, or to carry a concealed handgun with a concealed carry permit, at any State-owned rest area, at any State-owned rest stop along the highways, and at any State-owned hunting and fishing reservation.

(d) A person who is issued a permit shall notify the sheriff who issued the permit of any change in the person's permanent address within 30 days after the change of address. If a permit is lost or destroyed, the person to whom the permit was issued shall notify the sheriff who issued the permit of the loss or destruction of the permit. A person may obtain a duplicate permit by submitting to the sheriff a notarized statement that the permit was lost or destroyed and paying the required duplicate permit fee. (1995, c. 398, s. 1; c. 507, s. 22.1(c); c. 509, s. 135.3(e); 1997, c. 238, s. 6; 2000-140, s. 103; 2000-191, s. 5; 2005-232, s. 3; 2011-268, s. 14; 2015-241, s. 14.30(cc).)

Quote:

§ 14-415.21. Violations of this Article punishable as an infraction.

(a) A person who has been issued a valid permit who is found to be carrying a concealed handgun without the permit in the person's possession or who fails to disclose to any law enforcement officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun, as required by G.S. 14-415.11, shall be guilty of an infraction and shall be punished in accordance with G.S. 14-3.1. Any person who has been issued a valid permit who is found to be carrying a concealed handgun in violation of G.S. 14-415.11(c)(8) shall be guilty of an infraction and may be required to pay a fine of up to five hundred dollars ($500.00). In lieu of paying a fine the person may surrender the permit.

(a1) A person who has been issued a valid permit who is found to be carrying a concealed handgun in violation of subsection (c2) of G.S. 14-415.11 shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

(b) A person who violates the provisions of this Article other than as set forth in subsection (a) or (a1) of this section is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. (1995, c. 398, s. 1; 2011-268, s. 21(a); 2013-369, s. 16; 2015-195, s. 9.)

Quote:

§ 14-3.1. Infraction defined; sanctions.

(a) An infraction is a noncriminal violation of law not punishable by imprisonment. Unless otherwise provided by law, the sanction for a person found responsible for an infraction is a penalty of not more than one hundred dollars ($100.00). The proceeds of penalties for infractions are payable to the county in which the infraction occurred for the use of the public schools.

(b) The procedure for disposition of infractions is as provided in Article 66 of Chapter 15A of the General Statutes. (1985, c. 764, s. 1.)

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