Week 372: The Two Second Standards Part 1

Week 372: The Two Second Standards Part 1

Results may be posted until June 20th, 2020.

Designed by: Hardwired Tactical Shooting
Range: 3 and 5 yards
Target: B8 bull (black only) - download here: https://pistol-forum.com/attachment....1&d=1322428748
Start Position: Holstered or ready
Rounds Fired: Varies
Par Time: 2 seconds

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wayne Dobbs

In a close range deadly force confrontation, time will be the most critical commodity. The armed citizen/officer responding to the threat will have very little time to make effective shots on the adversary (ies) posing the threat. While every fight is different, my proposal is that we must achieve effective hits (and as many as possible) within no more than a two second window at the beginning of hostilities.

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This week we're going to focus on the most core aspects of the two second standards: presentation of the handgun from the holster and from ready, and shooting the B8 bull at 3 and 5 yards, with 100% hits under the time limit. We'll repeat this drill at some point in the future and widen the scope to a greater variety of tasks and distances.

String 1: Place the target at 3 yards and start in ready position of your choice. At the start signal, shoot as many rounds to the black B8 bull as possible. Record the number of hits you got within the par time. If you have any misses (shots outside the black bull) your score is zero. Overtime shots that HIT do not score any points but also do not result in a zero for the string - they just don't count for anything.

String 2: Repeat string 1, but starting from the holster.

String 3: Place the target at 5 yards and start in ready position of your choice. At the start signal, shoot as many rounds to the black B8 bull as possible. Record the number of hits you got within the par time. If you have any misses (shots outside the black bull) your score is zero. Overtime shots that HIT do not score any points but also do not result in a zero for the string - they just don't count for anything.

String 4: Repeat string 3, but starting from the holster.

If you completed all four strings with no misses, you Pass. If you have any misses, you Fail.

Please report the following when you post your results in this thread:

Equipment used (pistol, holster, optional concealment garment if one was used)
Score on String 1
Score on String 2
Score on String 3
Score on String 4
Grand Total Score
Pass or Fail
Anything you noticed

Training with firearms is an inherently dangerous activity. Be sure to follow all safety protocols when using firearms or practicing these drills. These drills are provided for information purposes only. Use at your own risk.

Equipment used: Glock 19 Gen 4, Ameriglo sights (exact make unknown). TTI connector, Wolff 5# striker spring, Wolff reduced power firing pin safety plunger spring. Dark Star Gear Orion, under a t-shirt.

Score on String 1: 29-2X (1 overtime shot, since I didn't call it precisely I deducted the highest point shot)
Score on String 2: 29
Score on String 3: 19 (1 overtime shot, since I didn't call it precisely I deducted the highest point shot)
Score on String 4: 10-1X
Grand Total Score: 87-3X
Pass or Fail: Pass

Anything you noticed:

• With this type of "highly accountable" shooting, I seem to take a lot more time on visual confirmation using irons vs using the red dot. Up to this point I have thought red dots to be unnecessary on carry guns despite shooting one in USPSA, because of the short distances involved in most CCW shootings, but if the target zone is like a B8 bull and misses are unacceptable, I may reconsider. Kind of food for thought.
  
• The pace of highly accountable shooting is totally different (I think?). At 3 yards on a 3x5 card I would normally be willing and able to split anywhere from 0.17 to 0.30, and accept a few misses (for most drills). On the 3 yard strings here I was splitting around 0.5s, even on a larger target. Might change if I shot more B8s at this distance and got used to the acceptable sight picture.
  
• I recently put in the TTI connector and the springs. I wouldn't say they make a huge difference but I think I am less likely to fling a shot way out if my grip is off.
  
• These sights seem to hit dead on the dot which is not what I'm used to, don't really like it for this kind of shooting.

For what it’s worth, Darryl said in class a couple years ago that you can add 0.3 seconds if you’re using turning targets.

This may vary by target system. Personally, on the range where I most often use turning targets, I add 0.2 - it seems more comparable to my beep times.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gun Nerd

For what it’s worth, Darryl said in class a couple years ago that you can add 0.3 seconds if you’re using turning targets.

This may vary by target system. Personally, on the range where I most often use turning targets, I add 0.2 - it seems more comparable to my beep times.

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Yes, Hackathorn and others have commented the .3 secs.was a cushion as that was the length of the buzzer.
I shot this on the Dept. indoor range late today, as we are opening up!
Gen5G26 w/BOLD sights(orange front-great sight),out of a Safariland GLS, unconcealed. Scores:
S1:20, S2:20, S3:10(2nd shot over@.31-discounted),S4:10. TOTAL=60. PASS, as all Xs/10s.
I was very aware of working the trigger carefully, as this is a “no screw up” exercise-get good hit(s). Hard focus on fundamentals.
I like this drill/eval., and will run it again, maybe concealed, w/RDS, etc.
Thanks for the work getting it out to us.

5" m&p 2.0 w/ dawson's
Dark star gear Orion w/dcc clips/ phlster tuckstrut
T shirt for concealment
Ready position was low ready, muzzle pointed 3 feet away from my feet

String 1 - 4 hits in 2.00 (fired 10 in 3.88 before i realized i was ot, all hits)

Attachment 54998

String 2 - 3 hits in 1.94 (fired 6 hits in 2.67 ot, all hits)

Attachment 54999

String 3 - 2 hits in 1.58 (fired 3 in 2.06 ot, all hits)

Attachment 55000

String 4 - 2 hits in 1.92 (fired 3 in 2.38 ot, all hits)

Attachment 55001


11 points total

Pass

I struggled to hear the beep while shooting. I tried to not let that slow me down and focus on reading the sights and pressing the trigger as fast as necessary to get the hits. I'll have to look and see what i did last time we ran this for comparison.

Looks like i did a 7 last time, so it's nice to see an improvement over time. I think a lot of that can be attributed to the work I've been putting in cleaning up my draw since then. Cool

Glock 43x
Henry aiwb
T shirt concealment

String 1 - 3 points (4 hits in 2.13)

String 2 - 2 points (3 hits in 2.19)

String 3 - 2 points (2hits in 1.76)

String 4 - 1 point (2 hits in 2.10)

Total - 8 points

Attachment 55245

I had a chance to borrow a friend's 43x to do a mini eval on and ran this as part of the evaluation. For a gun I've had less than 50 rounds on and having black glock night sights, as opposed to a bright front that I'm accustomed to, I'm fairly happy. Pretty easy gun to shoot well, especially considering the size. The serrated trigger isn't my fav but otherwise i liked the package overall. If i ever move back to glock, this will be in consideration.

HK P2000SK 9mm
JMCK George
T-shirt concealment
String 1: 3
String 2: 1
String 3: 2
String 4: 1
Total: 7
PASS

Walther PPS Classic 9mm
Keepers Errand
T-shirt concealment
String 1: 4
String 2: 1
String 3: 2
String 4: 1
Total: 8
PASS

Attachment 55255

Shot this yesterday with a coworker-Gen5G19MOS w/ACRO and TLR8A(green laser)mounted, out of a JMCK OWB2 concealed under a shirt.
S1: 4 S2:2 S3:1 S4:0(!) On String 4 I just got tangled up in the shirt on the draw-buzzer sounded and I stopped “en pointe”. 7/70 total, PASS, all Xs and 10s.
I’m a little encouraged by the increase in hits, embarrassed by the flubbed draw. Will try this again to redeem myself.
Another reminder to dry practice concealed draw.
Side note: activated laser from ready at 3&5: centered hits.

Question? I am seeing some differences on how people are scoring this. The way I understand it is you get 1 point for every shot that is in the black inside of 2 seconds no matter what the printed point value on the target is. Can anyone confirm or deny?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr_White

Record the number of hits you got within the par time. If you have any misses (shots outside the black bull) your score is zero.

Record the number of hits you got within the par time. If you have any misses (shots outside the black bull) your score is zero.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MVS

Question? I am seeing some differences on how people are scoring this. The way I understand it is you get 1 point for every shot that is in the black inside of 2 seconds no matter what the printed point value on the target is. Can anyone confirm or deny?

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That's how I understood it as well. Since it simply said to record the number of hits, as opposed to scoring by the rings etc...that's how I did it. I think your understanding is correct.

I have always thought it meant 1 hit in black = 1 point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr_White

I have always thought it meant 1 hit in black = 1 point.

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This was my understanding from taking the HiTS class a few weeks ago. Incentivizes more hits in the black over a smaller group size.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CalAlumnus

This was my understanding from taking the HiTS class a few weeks ago. Incentivizes more hits in the black over a smaller group size.

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Same here. First Responder Pistol is an awesome class.

PX4CC, JMCK 2.5 under a polo shirt.

First run: 3-0-0-0 = fail. I was hurrying to max out the shots so I was overrunning the timer with extra shots - but missing.

Second run: 3-0-1-0= fail. Slowed down too much and went OT on the draws.

Third run: 2-1-2-1 = pass. I focused on doing what I knew I could do and then stopping, which I think is the key to this drill.

My key area of improvement would be the speed to first shot. I was running about 1.18 from the low ready and 1.9 from the draw, with splits in the .3s. If I took about .2 off of those I could do 4-2-3-2.

Ran this early AM, private outdoor range. Gen5G19MOS w/ACRO, out of a Safariland GLS, under an unbuttoned shirt for concealed strings.
S1:3 S2:1 S3:2 S4:1 All in black=PASS.
I will do this again as I want to improve my draw time and get a few more rounds in. VERY conscious of overtime-but it occurs to me that OT shots just discounted.

Okay I guess my score was 8 then.

Nomad 9/glock 19 gen 5 mos upper/ holosun 507c from an enigma with haven defense holster attached and a button down shirt

String 1 - 4 hits in 1.63 for 4 points

String 2 - 4 hits in 2.05 for 3 points

String 3 - 4 hits in 1.99 for 4 points

String 4 - 3 hits in 2.10 for 2 points

Total points under time - 13

On the first string I stopped shooting, thinking that I missed and was over the par. Certainly underestimated myself and the amount of time that had passed. Four right in the x ring with time for another hit or two.

It's interesting going back and comparing to my scores earlier in the thread from when I was running irons only. Not only did i shoot higher points, but I literally shot the x ring out of the target by the time I was done(like the carnival game that I never win!). Dots are like easy mode with the amount of feedback you get. I was not intentionally shooting for the x ring but the dot just kept hovering there and I was simply shooting at the speed that I could guarantee hits in the black.

I'll take those hits all day long, especially on the first outting with a new gun.

https://i.postimg.cc/QtgFSwG5/20220710-162517.jpg
3 yards from the ready

https://i.postimg.cc/K8d4bxmB/20220710-162544.jpg
3 yards from the holster

https://i.postimg.cc/bvkrNWvM/20220710-162739.jpg
5 yards from the ready

https://i.postimg.cc/B6368pLv/20220710-162825.jpg
5 yards from the ready