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8 hour podcast discussing the 1911.
Panel:
Joe Chambers of Chambers Custom
Steve Fisher of Sentinel Concepts
Tim Herron of Tim Herron Shooting
Dave Laubert of Defensive Creations LLC
Chuck Pressburg of Presscheck Consulting
AJ Zito of Practical Performance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_NrooMVMms
Chambers is a soul crusher. I love it
Overall one of the more watchable and educational discussions that they have had.
Loved every minute of it. Great Modcast. Makes me want a 1911 all over again.
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A lot of great info in this!
I listened to part 1 on the road from VA to GA last week. Very informative and entertaining few hours. I was tempted to text AJ and tell him that I had a new Nighthawk 1911 that I put a dremel/grunder to, but decided to not mess with him like that.[emoji3]
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They (Joe primarily) seemed a bit critical of Wilson Combat especially regarding shock buffs and magazine design (although I’m not super tuned into the 1911 world so he could have been talking about someone else’s magazines).
The other thing I found interesting was the faint praise for Ruger and no mention of Colt in the under $1,000 category. He did mention that you cannot expect a SR1911 to be reliable with all ammo but did recommend it as a budget 1911.
On a side note I love how Chambers Custom puts adjustable rear sights slightly forward to protect them like the old unit 1911 in Vicker’s book. Unfortunately I’m poor and can’t drop 4K on a Workin’ Man’s Gun. :(
I didn't realize it was actually 8 hours. I listened to the podcast on spreaker and it was only 4.
It’s now two episodes.
Huh, I must have only caught the first part when I downloaded the other day. That means I have another couple days of 1911 listening on my commute! :D
Haha I'm in the same boat. Gotta love a DC/MD/VA commute!Quote:
Originally Posted by sharps54
I've been listening here and there for the last few days. Enjoying it.
I just bailed. I am sure these are all great guys who I am not worthy to wipe the boots of, but I tired of the smugness.
Maybe I will go back when I have had less coffee...
I have to definitely agree, but did manage to finish the whole 2 episode set.Quote:
Originally Posted by mmc45414
Chamber's opinion on recoil/mainsprings was pretty interesting. I've never heard that take before and may have to try it out.
Started listening to the second episode on the way home. It took them 28 minutes to start talking guns! That can be hard to take for folks not used to it. Most episodes have some decent nuggets of wisdom but you need to have patience to find them.
I recently relistened to episodes 125 & 126 (ballistics and shotguns) which both feature P-F members as guests and even in those more focused episodes there were a ton of tangents.
A 60 mile commute each way sure helps as I’m a captive audience! ;)
P&S could be a top podcast if they had more focus to their shows. They've had some great episodes with terrific guests, but they really make you dig for the knowledge bombs.Quote:
Originally Posted by sharps54
Yes, I have been thinking about this, and probably was planning for something entertaining while I was working, perhaps that was a mistake. I will probably revisit, perhaps I will download it for when I will be driving so I cannot bail for an alternative so easy. I am sure there is a buttload I could (want to) learn, just wasn't in the mood for school this morning.Quote:
Originally Posted by SecondHandSmoke
I've been listening to this while driving around since Saturday and I've got 18 min left on the last part. Lots and lots of info being thrown out there. It makes sense to me, but as Proverbs 18:17 says, "The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him."
So, a lot of what Joe says sounds good and he lays it on Wilson and other manufacturers pretty thick. My problem is I don't know what I don't know about 1911's. Like...at all. I'm a Glock and AR guy.
Now, I'm not the AR grand puba or anything, especially compared to a guy like @Wayne Dobbs , but I have worked on them in a semi-professional capacity (meaning, paid to do it in an FFL, but it was not my primary source of income) for several years, and I have completed Will Larson's Semper Paratus AR15 armorer's course twice with a 100% score. All that said, I see well-regarded AR companies do things and I know enough about AR's to look at it and go, "eh, not so much." Whether it's snake oil or cutting corners, I can understand and articulate why it may or may not be a good thing.
With a 1911, no idea. Joe gets into all kinds of things like a disconnector cut in the slide, barrel leg fitting, barrel lug hole size, chamber reaming, properly sprung, etc. According to him, most 1911 guys (including Wilson [inferred]) don't do this stuff.
Honestly, that scares me to death when I think about buying a 1911. Before listening to this I would've thought dropping $3K on a Wilson, Nighthawk, etc would pretty much guarantee a good reliable gun. After listening, I'm not convinced you can get away with anything much under $4K. That's like 8 Glocks or 4 Landgon Berettas!
Finally, and somewhat tangentially, I had occasion to meet Chris James of Combat Precision on the range the other day. I had no idea who he was. I just saw some guy shooting decent groups into a cool-looking target (kind of like the LTT where there were multiple dot sizes and areas). I asked him what the target was, he said it was his, introduced himself and gave me a few. Nice guy! Afterward I searched him here and it seems some members have some of his guns. Since he's extremely local, it would be cool to work with him;
but...
does he do things like a disconnector cut in the slide, barrel leg fitting, barrel lug hole size, chamber reaming, properly sprung, etc.
Or, does none of that really matter and Joe Chambers is full of it?
Excellent questions and I’m not a 1911 guy by trade either, so I’d be super curious to hear someone who does know their stuff if Joe is full of it. Based on his views on things and his method of verifying the “whys” of what he does, however, makes me think that he’s probably legit and correct for the most part.Quote:
Originally Posted by ASH556
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Re: Chambers opinions on 1911 best practices
I do think he came off as a bit of a douche discussing it, but I didnt read it as coming from a place of hate or ire. It sounded to me like years of frustration at seeing really expensive guns not providing the kind of value and finishing that he tries to put into a gun and expects from that price tag. He’s obviously a perfectionist and that shows.
I can say that from playing with spring combinations a lot during my 1911 love years, what he said about the mainspring weight’s effect on recoil impulse and tracking jives with my personal experience (not a gunsmith by any means).
And the finish reaming is a thing. I don’t have any damned clue about what companies reliably do or don’t, but that was something I sent one of my barrels in for when I had some extraction issues after having an extra tuned extractor done and checked. The gun was a Baer TRS and after the reaming it extracted phenomenally and would reliably run pretty much any ammo I stuck in it including stuff my second Baer would not run for shit.
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@ASH556, don't sweat it too much. If a 1911 made to a concise specification runs well, do all the details mentioned matter? Maybe, if you pay for those details. I greatly admire Jason Burton's work, but even he says a lot of what he does isn't by necessity -- it is what people who buy a bespoke pistol are paying for.
The risk in buying a 1911 isn't that the design is bad or prone to malfunction. The problem is that manufacturers have inconsistent quality control, or deviate from the specification in ways they shouldn't. Getting into the 1911 without an understanding of what things can go wrong and how to address them is what will lead to frustration. Sometimes the solution to a problem is simple to address, but it's hard to avoid feeling like it should have never happened in the first place.
If one buys a Government Model .45 from a quality manufacturer the gun will probably run and run without a lot of drama. Deviate from that pattern and the chances of something going wrong increase a little bit. Get into 9mm 1911s only if you have the patience and determination to see it through if you run into an early snag. It may also take some time and expense to figure out which magazines work best in your gun.
I think this is a pretty good summation :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinson
Seriously, if you are interested in the 1911 I say get one and start garnering experience that helps you form your own opinions. And something that costs $4k-$8k is not where you are going to start out at anyway, you didn't learn to drive in an AMG Black.
I made it far enough into the podcast to hear them all acknowledge that the Ruger is decent, that was all my confirmation bias needed (I recently bought three of them). Not saying they are infallible, but I think the failures are over reported, why would people post that they shot their gun and it did? Even after shooting them for decades I was able to spook myself a little about getting a 9mm, but now I have two of them and they both are chugging right along. I think they each (both SR1911s, one LWC 4.25" and the other the 5" Target) failed to extract once, once was with White Box Winchester that people consider to be lame, and once was with one of my reloads with a casing of unknown brand (I forgot to check).
You just listened to very knowledgeable guys who have made careers out of tweaking every possible bit of performance out of the thing and are understandably proud of their accomplishments, knowledge and abilities, and they charge accordingly.
ETA: The did also acknowledge that is not hard to get them to run with more normal bullet shapes, and only the most weird ones present the most challenge.
I liked the podcast. My take is that he’s not full of it, at all, he is extremely knowledgeable *but* his background is in bullseye 1911’s and some of his concerns and what he focuses on come from that world where extreme mechanical accuracy (~1.5” 10 shot groups @ 50 yards) is the expectation. If you are focused on a reliably functioning gun for self-defense and not extreme mechanical accuracy, then I think some of those things that are required or desirable on a bullseye gun (e.g. the disconnector slot and perfect barrel leg fitting and very tight frame/slide fit) are not necessarily needed. I remember reading something from him where he was asking people to report back on their barrel leg fitting and people were freaking out because their expensive semi-custom / custom guns did not exhibit good barrel leg fit and his response was basically don’t worry about it — the original 1911 design did not require it and it’s something that has come about through the development of bullseye guns. So it’s certainly nice to have, and will aid accuracy and perhaps durability, but there’s a good chance that your given Colt or equivalent won’t have it, and that doesn’t mean the Colt is a piece of junk.Quote:
Originally Posted by spinmove_
To all who watched or listened I want to say thank you. I'm pretty new to the whole podcast game so I appreciate your patience.
Respectfully,
Joe Chambers
Cool to see you here Joe.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeC
I’m not a 1911 guy but that episode made me appreciate why people are.
I tried the spring setup you recommend for my .45 and the gun is literally a different beast. Considerably easier to shoot and track.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeC
Glad to have you on man!
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Great to see you here, sir. I thoroughly enjoyed the podcast, and learned an incredible about how a properly built gun is supposed to be made in the span of 8 hours. I may listen to it again when I go TDY to SC next weekend, on another 8 hour road trip.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeC
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Joe's bumping this thread got me back and I listen to the rest of both episodes. Glad I did, learned a lot. :cool:
Was it 16/23? I listened when it came out but not I don't remember what he said.Quote:
Originally Posted by 45dotACP
It was 18/23Quote:
Originally Posted by GreggW
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If you ever have an FTE with WWB, don't just run a malfunction drill. Hang onto the case and look at it very carefully. It may provide clues to what went wrong. It may surprise you with how out of spec the extractor groove can be on that brass. I figure if you can get through a case of it without problems, you're probably about as bomb proof as you will ever need to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by mmc45414
In contrast, the grooves on the Academy/Monarch/PPU brass I have bought are quite nice.
Yeah, most all my ammo is reloads with brass that comes from wherever, the only reason I know one of the failures was WWB because I bought a box of it just to TEST my new pistol, hahaha.Quote:
Originally Posted by OlongJohnson
Thanks everyone for the kind welcome. I don't post on forums as much as I used to, but it's still enjoyable to keep tabs on things and help people when time allows. Glad to hear some of the info shared has helped a few people out there. The 1911/2011/2019 is my passion, but there is always more to learn.
@JoeC, good to see you here!
Does the 18/23 setup work as well on .45 Commanders running factory 230g and 185g or should I be looking at a different setup?Quote:
Originally Posted by 45dotACP