Advice for a guy looking to transition from Military Police to civilian/FED LE

Hey gents. So I'm in the Navy, I've just hit my 12 year mark and my wife literally just got hired onto JSO. I'm going to 20 years and then retire out of the military. I was going to go longer, but it's becoming less and less for me every day. It's the people not the job. So I've decided to start preparing now. I know I'll be at 40 years old when I retire from active duty. I have my Associates in CJ, I'm working on my BA and plan to have my masters when I get out. I also have, though I know it doesn't matter, my 2002NEC aka Military Police Investigator. Which I've been actively assigned in for about 5 years. I'm not doing my USMAPS certs because I heard they don't matter from other retired Military guys I trust that went civ LE. They're essentially journeyman certs from my understanding and people laugh at them. I have Center for homeland security certifications 1-5 also, not sure if that matters out of DHS, probably not, and those FEMA courses I'm sure y'all had to do too, because my mother who's a shrink at Cornell University in NYS had to do all of the same ones.

Anyway. I would like some advice from this knowledgeable group. I'm looking in the Fort Worth TX area when I get out. Not looking for a spot to be held or anything. I've got 8 years left. But I want to prepare now so I have the best possible shot. I've got a few injuries from the military but nothing that will keep me from doing the job, I do it now. Just looking to do another 20-25 years then retire from that.

I know I'm starting from the bottom and I'm not thinking the military thing gets me much at all like some dudes. My buddies gave me a little insight, but I'm looking to get some info from the group here to make sure I have the best info from the widest audience. Also if any of you are/were in the same boat. Just looking for some guidance. Thanks gents.


Edit: I'm also not too picky, I'll go to a Sheriff's office, PD, FED. Doesn't matter looking for all options. Just need a place to put in time. Not Dallas though....

If you print a CJ degree on toilet paper, it isn't worth wiping your ass with it. Get out of CJ and get a degree in something that is useful outside of police work.

One of the hardest things for a military to LE transition, is dealing with non-military coworkers and supervisors. It can be frustrating and a lot of retired military folks don't make it two years in LE work, because they don't realize how difficult other cops can make the job. I was issuing out plate carriers yesterday and the brain shed made something as easy as "pick up your plate carrier and sign next to your name" into something that makes a trip to CIF look like a formula one pit stop.

If you're going to put in the effort to get a BA and/or masters have something useful to show for your efforts and a contingency plan in case civilian LE is not you cup of tea.

At this point I recommend you get your 20 in with the Navy, lock in that retirement check and then look into a local agency in TX for a seperate retirement stream.


There are many good agencies in DFW. Fort worth PD for one. I would recommend Dallas PD or Dallas County SO only as a last resort.

A retirement check from the navy might allow you take a slightly lower paying job outside DFW for better working conditions and quality of life. Some where you could afford the 10 plus acres to be able to shoot on your own property for example.


Two things to be aware of are 1) age and 2) all Federal time is not created equal. Most fed LE agencies require you to go in by 37 due to mandatory retirement at 57 and the requirement to complete 20 years of fed LE/6c covered time to get the higher 1.7% rate for your first 20 years vs 1% standard civilian federal retirement.

There is a court case which some agency’s are usinng to take veterans over age 37 by using their military time to extend the entry age. So a veteran with 10 years Military could get hired up through age 47 instead of age 37.HOWEVER, a 47 year old with 10 years Military is still subject to manadatory retirement at 57 and still must do 20 years 6c time to get the 1.7% retirement rate. So our hypothetical 47 year old Veteran must retire at 57 with 20% of his average high 3 vs a 37 year old retiring at 57 with 34% and our veteran only gets 20% if they bought back / paid back the difference between the military and civilian contributions for their 10 years of military time.

If you go Federal in a 6c covered LE position prior to your 38th birthday you would still need to do 20 years in that position to get the higher retirement rate. You would also have to buy back those 12 years to make up the difference between military and civilian fed pension contributions. So you would retire with 20 years at 1.7% of you average high 3 (34%) and then, if you bought them back, get the 12 years as 1% per year as “additional Fed time.” So you would get 46% of the average of your 3 higher years. Plus your TSP and social security.

Thanks for the input gents, I appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by txdpd

If you print a CJ degree on toilet paper, it isn't worth wiping your ass with it. Get out of CJ and get a degree in something that is useful outside of police work.

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This.

Learn sign language and/or Spanish.

I made the switch from AD mil to LE last year, but I didn’t stay in for the full 20 (took up a part time Nat’l Guard slot instead). I’d definitely recommend staying for the 20 as you’ve indicated.

The one piece of advice I’d give based on my recent experience is: be patient in selecting an agency. I think a lot of people end up accepting the first offer that comes their way, which can lead to a bad mismatch between the agency and the officer. I didn’t expect this going in, but I ended up being an extremely competitive applicant...simply because I was a college grad with .mil experience and basic interview skills (and agencies are hurting for people). I had the luxury of choosing between a few agencies and finding the best fit. With your background I’d expect you’d have the same luxury and I’d recommend taking advantage of it. Good luck!

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Originally Posted by navyman8903

I've got a few injuries from the military but nothing that will keep me from doing the job, I do it now.

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If you’ve got legit service-connected injuries, make sure those are documented, and present that to the VA when you get out. A disability rating of 10% or more gives you a significant advantage in the hiring process for many Federal jobs.

Stay in the Navy for at least 20 and get that retirement. Then, forget law enforcement and utilize your college education for something else. Dumping the CJ degree is excellent advise. It's not quite as worthless as Underwater Basket Weaving 101, but damned close. Forty something is not the time to be jumping into LE as a career. Everyone else is patting you on the back with , "Good luck, follow your bliss!" bullshit. I'll be the outlier and drop the truth bombs. Forty is too old to be starting a contact sport like LE. By then you should be halfway through a career, not starting it.

I'll echo some of the advice you've already gotten. FIRST - get a degree in something that is marketable. You're already pretty "specialized" in your military experience, don't pigeon hole yourself further by getting a CJ degree.

Second - consider some other line of work. If you're going to be in your 40s when you start your academy and active LE career, you're going to be pretty far behind the power curve. I went to my academy and FLETC at 35-37, and got my butt whipped by the 22-30 year old classmates. Then, even though I was federal, which is TYPICALLY a less physically demanding line of work than uniformed local police work, my age was definitely an issue. At 40, I blew out my left shoulder doing a normal workout, and at 45, had a similar issue with my right shoulder. Neither of these injuries and the surgeries to repair them would have allowed my to suit up and get out on the street in uniform.

For me, I knew I wanted to be in Federal LE, so I jumped at the 12 year mark to avoid the age cap. If you're dead set on staying in the USN til 20 to get your retirement (assuming it's still there by then, and not gutted to nothing), I'd look for a different post-military career. If you're a hard core gun guy, you can get into training, you could work for a major manufacturer in training or sales, etc; OR, you could get a job that makes real money and pursue your gun hobby in your spare time.

I do appreciate the advice, and honestly I'm not super excited about starting over at 40. After I was the Chief Investigator at my last duty station I was able to get a lot of experience and time in doing dedicated LE work. I was also able to do all the cool shit you're normally not able to do as Military LE. I can't get out of the Navy, they've got me till 14 years, and not doing the last 6 would be dumb. Also I'm grandfathered in for the High 3 retirement system.

I wish I could just do something chill, but I think putting down the badge will be hard. I'm trying to stay in investigations till I get out, I really like the LE stuff. I don't mind the operational stuff either, but that's a young man's game. I can't do that forever. Maybe Federal is the way to go, I'm not sure. Maybe being a firearms instructor is the way to go too. I could do that. But at the same time I'll feel out of place not doing what I do now I think. I'm split on it. I really liked kicking doors and doing LE work, and I still like it. Part of me wants to relax after I retire. But at the same time I think I might hate it. I'm not sure.

I'll push into a different degree path though. That is solid advice and I appreciate it gents. I'll have to figure out what to do though lol.

I agree with those recommending against a CJ degree. The movers and shakers in the big PDs have degrees in things like business, which are useful outside of LE, as well.

A lot of my friends are a mix of Former/Current Military that went local LE, MP's that went local LE, MP's that went Fed, Local LE that went Fed, etc.
Overwhelmingly, I hear a lot about how Mil & MP stuff might as well be a different sport altogether compared to local LE and Fed LE.

Given that you'll have been in a full 20 years, and able to claim at least 5 points Veteran's Preference - I'd make some connections to local Navy/Army Reserve elements in your geographic area of interest and keep an eye out on USAJobs for various Federal positions that are not necessarily LE. There's a lot of nice gigs for armed security with Secret/TS-SCI and other clearances, not to mention a lot of staff/admin/training positions.
In particular, the OPM is almost constantly hiring background investigators to interview folks regarding security clearances.

There's a lot of positions in those sorts of organizations that could capitalize on your military experience and security clearances without going full rough-and-tumble local LE. The pay and work schedules are often far better, too.
With a lot of those Federal/GS positions, starting out with 20 years active duty would put you in a really nice position for accruing PTO, retirement, etc.

I’ll get in line in recommending against a CJ degree. LE is a full-contact sport— it’s easy to get hurt, and it will wear your body down. Get your degree in something that will help you in another career in case you get hurt, if your military retirement won’t be enough to pay your bills/support your lifestyle.

Forgive my intrusion. You can still use much of your coursework to count toward a 4 year degree in business, for example. Showing "anybody" that you understand how budgets work, plus the fact that you have military security experience, plus having a few courses in cj that gave you civilian l.e. buzzwords, and plus the fat that you are a good guy(pf member :))will all put your name at the top of the list. Large airports have high paying cop jobs. Many federal agencies have uniform cop jobs. My opinion is that you can fulfill your dream and not have to hustle drunks, respond to domestic dispute calls, and have teenagers call you a motherfucker.

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Originally Posted by willie

Forgive my intrusion. You can still use much of your coursework to count toward a 4 year degree in business, for example. Showing "anybody" that you understand how budgets work, plus the fact that you have military security experience, plus having a few courses in cj that gave you civilian l.e. buzzwords, and plus the fat that you are a good guy(pf member :))will all put your name at the top of the list. Large airports have high paying cop jobs. Many federal agencies have uniform cop jobs. My opinion is that you can fulfill your dream and not have to hustle drunks, respond to domestic dispute calls, and have teenagers call you a motherfucker.

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Exactly.

Especially on the federal side, most work is not full-contact all the time; it can be down right completely hands off for a lot of OIGs. It's certainly there, but not anything that would prevent a 40 year from starting (and it's done all the time with very successful careers).

On the local side you may want to take the advice others have said about starting out at 40, because if you never make detective (which sounds like where you'd want to go) then you don't want to be half-way to a pension and miserable with the idea of the jumping ship early vs being in pain all the time, sand bagging ("let the young guys do it!" attitude), or disabled. Port authorities, airports, etc might be a place to check. Like Willie mentioned, they can be very high paying and will also allow you to keep that separate military retirement stream.

Just do what you want in life, as long as it doesn't actively jeopardize your future. If you really wanted to be on the federal side, fuck it....just get out at 14, get the job you really want and in the mean time keep working towards that reserve/guard pension. I have colleagues and friends that are Navy O-5 submarine officers, military intelligence, EOD, USCG maritime security, Marine Recon, Marine Force Recon/Scout Sniper, Army SF, and even an AFOSI reservist. They ALL had 10+ years on when they left active duty to take our job and continue with a reserve commitment on the side. Many of the guys with 8 years or less active duty tended to have dropped their reserve/guard commitment, from what I've seen (juice not being worth the squeeze at that point).

Point being: You'll still make out well in the end, so do what you want in life and what fulfills you.

What about putting in for Fed jobs now and if you get hired transition to the reserves to get the mil retirement? I know several who have done this.

My Agency needs like 5,000+ Agents...I believe we are still taking former .Mil up to 42. I went through out academy at 37 and was fine. Lots of former service guys in the Patrol, it seems like a good fit for y’all and lots of guys to reserve to ride out thier 20. You could easily get a Duty Station in TX (although it will be no where near Ft. Worth). Lots of our guys are jumping over to ICE (no academy) or to Customs (chill academy) after becoming career conditional (3 yrs) to “get home”...the process is pretty long but it’s more check the box (apparently our stupid Poly is a bitch though) compared to the processes I went through while applying to PD’s after getting a worthless CJ degree and graduating Pre-Service from a CA POST academy (that was very worth while).

I remember chasing some dude for something when I was in my late thirties/early forties and thinking that I'm too old for this shit and how it really is a young mans job. That's something that you have to consider if you go local or state. If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't even think local. It would be federal all the way or a different line of work. DEA,FBI,DSS, BP,USMS,USPS are just about the only agencies in law enforcement I'd even consider now. No offense to anyone employed in a different agency that I may have forgotten.

That's what my uncle said after he went ashore with the first wave at Tarawa and then did the same at Inchon when he was 41 years old. You old guys mentor the younger troops, model desirable behavior, and assure seamless transition beteen generations. Thank you.

Everything in law enforcement depends on where you live and what agency you work for.
When researching for an agency, here are some things to consider (in no particular order):
(1.) Find out what they pay. What’s the cost of living in that locality?
(2.) How much VOLUNTARY overtime is available?
(3.) How often might you be ordered in or held over? It happens to all of us sometimes, and in some places, because of the staffing level and the amount of calls for service it happens A LOT. That makes it difficult to plan anything outside of work and can interfere with daycare.
(4.) Do they rotate shifts or do they work straight shifts? Some places have you rotate from days to evenings to midnights. Some places may have you rotate in relief between two shifts, and others just have straight shifts.
(5.) How does the days off rotation work?
(6.) How easy is it to get time off and how much notice do you have to give?
(7.) Do shifts get picked on an annual basis, or do you get hired and put into a spot and don't have an opportunity to move until there is a vacancy?
(8.) Do you have a union? How detailed is your contract?
(9.) How much leave time do you get in a year? How much sick time? Does sick time accumulate?
(10.) Being a cop means nights, weekends, and holidays. Depending on circumstance and your expectations, that can be really hard on family life. Or not that big a deal.
(11.) Rookies in most places start on the midnight shift. If you can't get accustomed to working the late shift, being awake at night and sleeping during the day, maybe being the police is NOT a good idea for you.
(12.) If you work the evening shift you won't see your wife & kid much.
(13.) What kind of arrangements can you make for child care?
(14.) How well is the agency staffed? How well are they equipped? Do you have a reasonable opportunity for specialized training? Do they pay education incentive for your degrees?
(15.) How is the retirement program?

It's hard to make any kind of blanket statement about police work as a career because there are WAY too many variables from agency to agency and from one part of the country to another.

(I'm fortunate. I've been on straight 11p-7a BY CHOICE since 1977, because I'm a night person. I like the flexibility of working nights. My evenings are free to do things with family & friends and to do recreational things EXCEPT that I can't drink before going to work. We have rotating days off, reasonable pay and benefits and reasonable opportunity for voluntary overtime. As much as a few of the guys at my PD bitch and whine about everything, we have it pretty good, and they're too dumb to realize it)

If you're married and have a wife & child, then you also have responsibilities as a husband and father. Which means you need to be home sometimes. Don't make the mistake lots of guys do, and get hired on, work evenings so you don't see your family much anyway, and THEN get on specialized units like SWAT or Search & Rescue or Narcotics or something, which places even more of a demand on your time. Take a good interest in your career, feel free to pursue interesting training & education on your own time and at your own expense once in a while, but don't let the job become your life. If you have kids, having a job assignment where you have to carry a pager and be on call all the time may NOT be a good idea . . .

Lots of guys work all night and then babysit all day, and then try to catch a nap before going back to work at 11pm. They spend their whole life all jet lagged and burned out, and they never get to see their wife. Try to avoid that at all costs if you want to be effective at work and stay married.

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Originally Posted by Jeff22

Everything in law enforcement depends on where you live and what agency you work for.
When researching for an agency, here are some things to consider (in no particular order):

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Mic Drop. This is an awesome list of considerations. I agree 100% and see guys wishing they had thought about these issues post-hire all the time.

The key to happiness in Law Enforcement is this: Early in your career you should figure out what you most want to do and then try to figure out a way to do that.

I've spent my whole career as a cop on nights. As an officer. Some people who came on when I did, or afterwards grew up to be Detectives or Sergeants or Lieutenants or Captains. One place I work, I trained the Deputy Chief when he was a rookie and in another I trained the Chief in the police academy, and in another I trained the Lieutenant. (In my career I've worked one place full time and three places part time)

And I see many of these people on a social basis once in a while, and after a few drinks they always tell me "The funnest years of my career were when I was a rookie on patrol on the late shift. I really miss those days."

Okay, I don't miss that because I'm still doing it. Before I was ever a cop I decided being a firearms instructor was going to be a lot more fun than being in management. And it is . . . I didn’t go to school to be a cop with the goal that someday I wanted to work days and be in an office (unless it was at the range). I went to school to be a cop with the plan that I was going to be a cop for thirty years or so. In an ideal world and in an ideal situation, I probably should have been a Sergeant, but that was not to be.

So you have to decide your purpose in the law enforcement profession. Are you there to have fun and do interesting and sometime significant things or just to promote and be miserable? Many people would like to promote and then make a difference and make things better and be a causal factor for positive change, which is a noble and correct goal. But you have to do a realistic evaluation of your circumstance and of the organizational culture, and decide if that is a realistic goal.

And the organizational culture can change quickly when you get a new Chief or Sheriff, and go from good to bad, or bad to good, or bad to worse. And there is no way to predict that, so you have to try to protect yourself as best you can.

I have seen guys who promote with the intention of being the advocate for the line officers with upper management. Sometimes that works, and sometimes they just get beaten down and marginalized and ignored.

And remember people are usually stupid, and the guys you are trying to champion with the brass may not understand or appreciate your efforts, and they may turn on you and stab you in the back because they're mad because you had to turn down a vacation or training request.

Being the police who respond to unusual events in an essentially ordered environment is often a pretty good job. If you work in a really active jurisdiction where you hit the ground running at the beginning of every shift and are rolling call to call for your whole duty tour, that's different. It's probably great when you're in your twenties and young and crazy and with limited family responsibilities, but after 5 or 7 years of that I suspect the novelty begins to wear off and you start counting the days until you can retire.