Link to SIG press release.
https://www.sigsauer.com/press-relea...17m18-pistols/
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Link to SIG press release.
https://www.sigsauer.com/press-relea...17m18-pistols/
Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
“The specific performance improvements of the MHS over the M9 include better accuracy, tighter dispersion, and better ergonomics, which when combined, result in a far more lethal pistol.”
:rolleyes::D
Experten shooting from 1:25 on:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=sc-pQH9GSxA
Lethal is the Army's new catchphrase.
"That we still won't actually train people to shoot proficiently." (not that it's actually more lethal anyway)Quote:
...a far more lethal pistol.
Sorry I'm not especially fluent in military lingo. What the hell does "tighter dispersion" mean?
That safety position/ slide stop looks like a nightmare for slide lock if you use the safety correctly
I never shot on an indoor range, but I was surprised to see all those soldiers on the firing line without Kevlars. Most likely, it was just a part of the dog and pony show which accompanied the Sig and Army brass patting themselves on the back.
I have to agree with bighoss's post above..If they (U.S. Army) aren't willing to invest time into actual training with a handgun, they may as well give them slingshots... This is nothing more than a waste of tax payer dollars..
I understand that, but if you're going to issue pistols, then why not train people to use it profeciently, as they do with a rifle? What good is a hand gun if you can't use it well. Still a waste of taxpayer dollars, as I don't see what the Sig does better than the M9, It's going to be interesting to see how well the Sig holds up to the typical abuse, poor maintaince that the M9 got..
At 2:20 in the video the safety is on and the shooter attempts to apply ~30 lbs of pressure to it before realizing it. The way the video is cut though you can't tell if the safety was "bumped on" during shooting because it doesn't show the shots before that. I do think the position of the slide release to the safety would tend to cause shooters to either a.) inadvertently bump the safety on when trying to lock the slide to the rear, b.) ride the safety and the slide release and prevent it from locking open on an empty mag, or c.) not riding the safety due to previously mentioned issue and bumping the safety up/on under recoil because of it.
Is there any evidence for the claim that the P320/M17/M18 is more accurate than the M9? In my experience the 92-series pistols are profoundly accurate. Are they just talking about aged, beat-to-heck M9s or are they making the claim that the 320 is more accurate out of the box?
Two deployments to Iraq. My pistol was a paperweight. If I had been using a pistol- then things had gone so bad- it wouldn’t have mattered.
As someone said earlier- with rifles, machine guns, tanks, Apaches, etc- the pistol could be important but I didn’t see one fired in 23 months.
Well, at least none of the pistols OOB exploded during the video ;). I seriously hope that Sig has these pistols RIGHT, and they'll serve our men and women in uniform well for a long while. My agency is considering adopting them as a replacement for our current issued P229/P238 DAK .40s, and it appears Big Navy is pushing to standardize on the M17/M18 for all handguns.
As for durability I doubt it's a concern in the short term. The high volume pistol shooters in the military aren't using these.
Dispersion is more of a machine gun term, iirc: true bullet hoses, a machine gun is expected to have an "area of dispersion" which the gunner uses to hose his bullets into his target area and beat everything within it into Swiss cheese as he works the gun back and forth across the target area.
Tighter dispersion means more precise, even if it is maybe an awkward turn of phrase.
Forgive the thread drift, but it's largely about money. My agency has to pay for our Sigs out of hide, since they're not "standard" equipment issued by Crane. Going forward, if we need new pistols, parts, mags, etc, Crane and Navy won't support. So, we either have to keep cutting out of our very limited budget to support legacy firearms, or go with the new "standard issue"...
From a Guard/Reserve standpoint, annual qualification is the only time the Soldier will fire his/her weapon, and it's different with and without battle rattle. While it may not qualify as training, it's as close as they'll get unless they're spinning up for a deployment.
As a tanker, we were issued an M9. When we shot, we were in full battle rattle. When we deployed stateside toting M-16's and had to qualify, we were in full battle rattle. I was under the impression that was always how the Army did it, until I read Drang's post.
And the majority of guard and reserve units never use their full annual allocation of ammo. And the majority of Guard and Reserve units never do dry practice or practice squad and team tactics both great opportunities to practice in full gear.
Annual IWQ is for verifying zeros and verifying that Soldiers have the ability to apply basic marksmanship fundamentals. When that has been completed training can start. Unfortunately, most commanders don't see it that way.
I am sorry for continuing the thread drift. GreggW - I would be curious to learn more about the factual basis for your comments about the Guard and Reserve units ammunition usage and how they train. There are 54 states and territories with National Guard and Reserve units so your statement seems to be a fairly broad brush. Maybe this should be a separate thread.
The first thing I noticed in the pictures was the position of the fingers/hands on the pistols.
Couldn't help but notice in a number of the pictures that the soldiers are 'tucking' their rear thumb...besides suboptimal recoil control, this seems a poor choice to manipulate the safety, and risks inadvertent activation of the safety. I'll be curious to see if the revision of TC 3-23.35 Pistol will recommend riding the safety...
http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-c...E-440x294.jpeg
http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-c...3-440x660.jpeg
On guns where I tend to hit the slide stop I usually just bend my thumb up at the first knuckle and this usually works.
One might almost say you can't fix a software problem with a hardware solution.
Christmas Arrives Early for the 101st as XM17s are Issued!
https://www.americanrifleman.org/art...7s-are-issued/
1st Security Force Assistance Brigade (1st SFAB) at Fort Benning is getting theirs are well...