New Rulebook here: http://www.idpa.com/misc/Rulebook%202017.pdf
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New Rulebook here: http://www.idpa.com/misc/Rulebook%202017.pdf
Hit post too fast: (FTDR!)
- 1 second per point down.
- Classifier is much simplified (72 rds instead of 90) - new classification limits, etc.
- PCC (pistol caliber carbine)
- Fault lines (on standards only)
- New type of penalty: Flagrant Procedural...
Kinda like it...
My IDPA club is shooting a PCC like event when we have a 5th Sunday on the calendar. Very popular. Good to see it formalized.
Lame sauce.
So when do they plan on bringing the fun factor back?
I used to enjoy IDPA. Now it is just a loooooooooooong list of rules that appear intent on handicapping the shooter instead of the gear.
Spoken like a true GM.
your comment really did make me smile. I'd love to be there one day.
There's so much shit here that makes no sense.
PCC
10 round PCC limit
Longer CCP barrel length but making the other dimensions shorter?
No more tac sequence?
No mandatory reloads?
Plate racks are legal now? I'm not complaining but that seems odd considering their past behavior.
No more memory stages? I didn't even know memory stages were allowed. I just assumed they weren't.
Wilson makes Commanders and 9mm carbines now. Makes total sense.
No more mandatory reloads!?
Edit: in my mind I was thinking now you don't have to run dry, can somebody clarify?
Retention reloads, or whatever they call them, are gone? They're going to use fault lines to determine if you are behind cover? That would fix two of my biggest complaints if true.
Looks like you can still do them if you want.
I am not sure how the faultlines work in relation to cover calls. aka-can the So still call cover on your top half?
While I like fault lines is USPSA I am of mixed view of them in IDPA as it helps make you think about staying behind cover.
1 second per point down. Thats fine.
I like these:
Quote:
3.6 Cover and Reloads
3.6.1 When the shooter runs the firearm empty in the open, the shooter may reload in the open and continue engaging
targets as needed or move to the next shooting position.
3.6.2 In stages with cover or concealment, shooters may reload standing still or on the move anytime as long as they
are not exposed to unengaged targets during the reload.
3.6.3 Dropping a loaded magazine or speed loader/moon clip does not incur a penalty as long as the shooter retrieves
and properly stows the loaded magazine or speed loader/moon clip prior to the firing of the last shot in the string
of fire.
3.6.4 Malfunction Clearing: When clearing a malfunction, the magazine or speed loader/moon clip and/or ammunition
that may have caused the malfunction does not need to be retained by the shooter and will incur no penalty if
dropped.
The problem isn't shooting around cover/barricades, its that without fault lines people are judged and penalized on completely arbitrary calls by what an RO judges is the "cover line". That's fine in figure skating, but has absolutely no place in a competition where hard numbers and hundredths of seconds determine a winner. That's why people complain about it.
I took a quick look at the rules, and what would be helpful would be a redline version, making the changes easy to see.
I haven't shot any matches of any of the recognized organizations in several years. I did read over the new rule book last night, and I actually like some of the changes and may rejoin IDPA simply to reclassify under the new classifier and shoot some local matches. We no longer have any sanctioned matches in these parts.
My likes:
I really like the 1 second per point down change.
I like that the retention reload is gone from the classifier. Twice I was on course to make SSP master (old times) going into that string...
The hubbub about reloads and cover seems to have been addressed.
Dislikes:
I'm still grumpy over duty gear being excluded from sanctioned matches, but as there are no sanctioned matches in these parts, it's moot.
Still too many divisions- if the classifier is valid, what difference does having a hammer/SA trigfer or a striker make?
Not disagreeing. At the same time it takes out the the thinking of it you are in cover as well. I'm surprised at the change though as that makes it significantly closer to USPSA. I thought they wanted to stay away from the "USPSA with shoot me first vests" comparison.
One way around it is to have the same pain in the butt SO remaining stationed at the stage so everyone is treated to their judging equally.
If its helpful, police may compete in their duty gear. However, whenever I see them in their duty gear I think: 1) how do you move in all that gear? 2) how do sit down? :)Quote:
I'm still grumpy over duty gear being excluded from sanctioned matches, but as there are no sanctioned matches in these parts, it's moot.
Duty gear is allowed at club level matches, but it is not allowed in a sanctioned match.
Usually on the forums the discussion of duty gear at matches devolves into a "some guy showed up gaming it with X holster claiming it was duty gear".
I get that administratively it is easier to simply require concealment across the board.
PCC, fault lines, reload when you run dry anywhere, no retention reload on the classifier, new "flagrant penalty" (Not sure when this applies), 1 second down per point down...
Classifier is shorter and simpler, barrel lengths are shorter and longer on somethings...
Yeah.
PCC is not at all compliant with IDPA principles and policies. And if we are stuck with it, it is not well enough described. What are the Ready and safe transport positions for a carbine?
Another grade of penalty with a lot of overlap and contradiction? Phooey.
Real WTP BUGs instead of sawn off service pistols, good, those go in CCP.
There is a comparison at
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6numg5koj8...02015.pdf?dl=0
PCC may make me interested in IDPA again. But that's partially a local legislation thing.
The 1 second a point thing is dumb and should be killed with fire.
The old classifier was a very useful skills test. Dumping that was silly.
Just thought I’d point out that this is still in the draft phase, out for member comment/criticism, etc. FWIW.
Had the chance to skim it over this am. Couple points…
There are some clarifications that seem might be helpful re reloading in the open; specifically when there aren’t any “unengaged” threats in view. I like those changes if I’m reading them correctly. In battery loading and not retaining a mag with rounds in it is still illegal. i.e., no speed reloads. (shrug)
I agree that tac loading is still going to be an important part of the game, especially since it doesn’t appear to be limited to a “position of cover” any longer like in the current 2015 rulebook. Before the last rulebook, considerable gaming advantage could be had with savvy well timed RWRs. :)
The fault lines appear to just be an addendum that allows course design to have them if desired by staff. Nothing mandatory, unless I’m missing something. It doesn’t change the way cover is going to be called by the SO, as the cover “fault line” is still going to change for every target in an array per the same old cover rules. So we’ll still have all of our beloved subjectivity. No surprise there.
The one second down thing, while unnecessary IMO, isn’t going to change the outcome of the top bunch of spots much at the majority of matches. I’ve been tallying our local clubs’ results looking at scores both ways over the last year or so. The guys that shoot fast and accurately are still winning the matches in both cases. ;) The folks that are going to get crushed are the MM/SS hoser types.
I’m glad they’ve added PCC. I look forward to dabbling with a carbine in both IDPA and USPSA.
And I’m still pissed they disallowed (legitimate) duty equipment at major matches. I stopped spending my money traveling to IDPA majors when that change came about.
In the end, like it or not, it’s just another game. I happen to think it's fun. :D
I understand why IDPA would not allow shoulder or small of back holsters, but I cannot get why appendix carry is still out. Among the younger/thinner crowd there is a very high percentage of guys who carry this way. If IDPA is supposed to be more "real world" they should allow this. It seems that from a marketing and participation point of view this would help grow the sport. Being able to shoot without the goofy vest would be a major plus right off the bat.
^^ I was told by my local IDPA MD because "under pressure you will shoot yourself". Told him I competed in uspsa from concealed appendix for a few months and managed to live, and if his game wouldn't allow me to carry the way I do everyday then that was fine.
Such a dumb rule, but generally the suckier shooters will be found at idpa matches so maybe they might shoot themselves.
IDPA was originally made to get away from the "gamer" USPSA game. Unfortunately it turns out people are realizing with divisions like Production it's just fine for what skills are actually possible to test and measure, tactical shooting or not.
Fault lines and cover calls combined make my head hurt. I also don't understand making required retention reloads part of the game. If you want me to reload more set the stage up so I have to. Leave the penalty in there for loaded magazines on the ground. I'm okay with that. Just don't tell me I have to remove a magazine with rounds in it and replace it with another magazine while holding onto the original magazine. I promise, we are all more "tactically" tactical if we don't Tim.
With the different classifier and new scoring rules, they need to wipe the classification database of everything below master, or they need to let whatever people shoot on the new classifier be prevailing even if it means people go down in classification. That's not a commentary on the difficulty level of the new classifier; just that it is different.
Just did a quick browse. I'm really wondering about this one:
"6.9.2 Blind stages are not allowed in IDPA, additionally, moveable non-threat indicators are not allowed."
Really? That seems profoundly stupid for all matches regardless of level. Any idea how long has this been the case?
Now you're just trying to make feel bad aren't you.Quote:
Master was already fairly easy to get, I'm a little perplexed that they made it even easier.