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I'm looking for some basic carbine classes in the Dallas / Ft. Worth area. Doesn't need to be quite as basic as, "This is where the bullet comes out" but nothing significantly more advanced than that.
I was going to look to Stephen Pineau at M3 Strategies, but he hasn't listed any classes since October 2014.
Per Bookface, he had some medical issues recently but he has a good reputation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance
Check out these guys http://specopsystems.com/category/civilian/
Perhaps Steve Moses? I have not trained with him, but received a good report from a friend that did.
http://bluffdalefirearmsacademy.com/about-us.html
People I trust have also told me good things about Will Petty.
If you are willing to drive 2-3 hours, your really can't beat Paul Howe's CSAT.
There are some carbine course coming up and as a graduate I can wholeheartedly endorse it.
I'd jump on that if it were that close to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Suvorov
I've trained with Paul three times, and the drive is closer to four hours from where I live. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Suvorov
I know Jim Smith is in the DFW area but I'm not sure he does many civilian classes these days. I'd jump at the chance to have him teach me how to tie my shoes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance
Crap, I totally forgot about MSG Howe being so close.
I'd be on that like ugly on an ape.
I don't know what they offer in Carbine training, but Nyeti & Wayne Dobbs provide training in that general vicinity. Jeff Gonzales is down the road a wee bit just north of Austin. And Paul Howe is worth the drive.
Perhaps I need to talk to Wayne and Darryl about doing a carbine class down that way.
All of the trainers mentioned are top notch, and having CSAT that close would insure that I would spend way too much money there.
I'm taking a class at HiTS in March (ironically, the same weekend Bluff Dale Firearms Academy has their next carbine course), but they're not offering a basic carbine at the moment, at least not according to the website.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Haggard
FYI Bruce Gray will be teaching a class in SA in march as well (pistol).Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance
Well, it looks like I'm going to be stuck doing some driving. Stupid enormous state.... :)
I highly agree with going to CSAT/Paul Howe. If you live in the DFW area (I seem to remember a drive closer to 4 hrs but maybe I drive slow) there is no excuse not to go train with Paul Howe. I took a 2 day Tactical Pistol and 2 day Tactical Carbine, and they were both excellent. It is all meat and potato stuff, heavily centered around doing the fundamentals well, and you will see no flashy bullshit, which is great. Great courses to build your essential framework of skills. Unfortunately I am too far to easily go as I now live in GA.
Oops, I just read your post that you have already been there!
We just need a range. For what its worth, the last time we offered a two day red dot carbine class we got exactly zero sign ups. We would love to do a basic two day carbine and may need to revisit this if we can find an appropriate range facility to host.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Haggard
Wayne and I both HIGHLY recommend Paul Howe.
I'm not sure how you get permission to run classes there but from what I've seen, most people do a class at ETTS in Waxahachie or CCC in Cresson. I think Frank Proctor and Kyle Defoor will run their local classes at ETTS this year.
Please accept those of us who would need to babysat through the zeroing process :) I would prefer a 1 day pistol, 1 day carbine but would take either from you guys
ETTS is a great range.
I can vouch for Steve Moses, and Wayne Dobbs, having trained with both in the past. Paul Howe is also on my short list. One not mentioned but should be is T.J. Pilling of Tiger Valley, (his training company). He's a former SWAT officer, amongst other things with Garland PD. His main training range is down in Waco, where he offers his larger multi day classes. I have a friend that took the basic combat pistol class, (the corporate security gig paid for it), down in Waco, nothing but great things to say. Anyway Tiger Valley might be worth checking out.
www.tigervalley.com/tvciv_carbine1.php
Best,
Dave
I would highly recommend TJ Piling at Tiger Valley.
CCC is in College Station, not Cresson. We have a good relationship there and it is a great facility.
The range in Cresson (when I was there last year) has no facilities, which I am not a fan of. Heard good things about ETTS and should be shooting down there this week, so I will see for myself.
Necro-post / bump. I super need to learn how to use one of these things prior to March 2018. Tiger Valley has a course in February, but anything closer/sooner would be amazeballs.
If you're in the area and wouldn't mind spending an afternoon with a clueless newbie, give me a holler. I will happily buy you dinner if you agree to answer my stupid questions and then later disavow any knowledge of my ignorance.
Green Eyes Tactical is running a 1 day "Zeroing and Fundamentals Clinic" this weekend at CCC in Cresson. I happened to see them listed on M4C, but don't know anything about them.
Hell, I’ll go shooting with you. I’ll even provide the rifles (not ammo). No claim to be an instructor but I am a pretty fair shot and have some competitions under my belt. PM me for dates and times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for pointing this out. Apparently he's a former Unit guy. Wouldn't mind having one of those locally.Quote:
Originally Posted by David S.
I PM'd you.Quote:
Originally Posted by TR675
I already contacted the OP about this a couple weeks ago, but just in case anyone else is looking through this thread, I have received information from a well-respected forum member that this was a bad suggestion. NOT RECOMMENDED.Quote:
Originally Posted by David S.
Green Eyes Tactical is NOT recommended for anything--stay away...
Thanks again.Quote:
Originally Posted by DocGKR
Does anyone want to quantify these vague warnings?
Not other than you can trust DocGKR.Quote:
Originally Posted by jellydonut
I feel like warning people off someone like they're James Yeager probably deserves more of an explanation than just a statement from people that know their voice carries weight.
Necropost bump.
I attended the Tiger Valley Carbine I class over the weekend.
TLDR. Based on my singular experience this weekend, I would not recommend this as a level 1 class. I could potentially see value in taking this class (at least the 1 day refresher version) if you are already competent with a carbine and want to do something different.
TJ seems like a solid individual and has a very impressive range facility. He has a 1K yard range, elevated structures (including a 5 story steel frame platform) to shoot from, an “obstacle course,” and a variety of barricades to shoot from. We also spent some time on a 150y range with a smaller wood framed (maybe 15 ft tall) that requires you to shoot from unconventional positions. The range also has the ability to shoot moving targets. He has a bunch of cool stuff that I’m sure is unique for civilians.
Two guys signed up for a 1 day refresher. Both were multi time alumni of this class. I was the only one who signed up for the two day. This was my first formal rifle/carbine class, and I probably tripled my lifetime round count through center fire rifles.
That said, there was no apparent learning objectives or standards for this class. There was very little critique or instruction and no contextualization to myself as a suburbanite. TJ brought us to all the spots mentioned above and he had us work it out. We shot from 25-400ish yards. We were given as much time as we needed for self discovery til we were satisfied. We worked out holdovers and wind correction at a variety of distances and elevation.
In discussion with a couple guys that have carbine training, there was a lot of topics that were not introduced or discussed in the class, including managing offsets, malfunctions, cleaning and maintenance, the utility and proper application of slings and optic magnification, BUIS, etc.
I have a few hundred hours of handgun training and 20 hours of shotgun training. Tiger Valley’s Carbine I seemed like more of a “guided experience” than a training class. I can see how experienced shooters would find value in getting access to these unique platforms and props.
The other students were satisfied with their experience.
Following in the necro-bump trend I will go on record as saying that Vickers puts on excellent basic carbine training. At least, my class in 2011 was excellent (holy smokes, time flies). Now, that class had some good dudes in it too that may have contributed to the level of instruction LAV provided. I also had a Vickers "Advanced Pistol Marksmanship" class in 2014 that was not great. Correspondingly the student population of that class was pretty bad too. According to LAV it was an issue of the host not correctly qualifying/verifying the pre-req's of certain students.
In the carbine class, Larry appropriately covered the how's and also why's of carbine-user interface, controls manipulation, reloads, zeros, offsets, transitions, positions, and shooting on the move. A good solid foundation of fundamentals for carbine use.