Jeep's loading chronicles

• Dillon 650, Mr. Bullet Feeder kit
• 9mm Luger
• Mixed brass
• Bullet: .358 125g RF Lee 6 cavity mold, DIY Hi-Tek coating
• Winchester 231 - ball, 3.8-4.5g
• Dies - Dillon sizing, Hornady Custom Grade for all others Seating has micrometer attachment w/ gasket removed:
• CCI primers
• COAL: 1.010, dialing this as development continues
• Chronograph data (if possible):N/A
• Goals intended with this load: Accuracy while making minor, fast production speeds
• Using a bearing kithttp://hitfactorshooting.com/products/products.html

Working on load development for 1 Sig P226 and 1 Glock 19. Goal is to find optimum OAL/charge for each for minor load out, focus on accuracy with production cost second, reducing total time of investment 3rd priority.

Methodology for initial development

• 1-Starting OAL = pass case gauge
  2-Bullets are unsized .38 loaded in 9mm cases
  3-Dial charge load
  4-Run 10 pieces of brass through for plinking ammo to settle powder measure
  5-Run 10 rounds for load development
  6-Reset powder measure for next charge amount
  7- Repeat 3 through 6 for .2 grain steps

Bullets are .358 grain, DIY coated with HiTek powder for 2 cycles. Currently unsized, later this year will be adapting existing bullet collator for semi-automated bullet sizing on sigle stage press.

Bullets are cast with scrap wheel weights, using a Lee bottom pour 'drip o matic' pot. Temp knob kept at 6.5, takes 2-3 pours in the mold to get good fill out and bullets. Temperature isn't consistent, as diameters change a bit during a casting session from not having PID temp control. Only matters when using with bullet feeder, can get caught in the dropper assembly.

#Dillon650

Can't load anything if you don't have the bullets. Took an hour or so and cast these, then coated and sized them today. Mold is a Lee 6 cavity .358 125 grain. Going to make some 105 grain semi wadcutters in a month or so as well.

I'll likely add another mold that is more traditional of the 9mm projectile, which should be very friendly on my bullet feeder and hundo case gauge.

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I never could get into making my own projectiles. I will cut all the other possible corners, buy in bulk, etc. but I just cannot justify the lead thing. Please be careful with the lead projectile process.

Thanks, it's something that I don't take lightly. All casting and coating is done outside for great ventilation


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Came up with a way to automate my bullet sizing (kinda). Was doing this while I had a batch of bullets in the oven getting coated, 10 pounds of lead melting, and a load of bullets drying in the dehydrator.

https://youtu.be/g8VB7mw1Qwc


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Bought 10K S&B primers - 3K were small rifle on mega sale, so those will feed the Sig with a full-power hammer spring.
Bought up 11 pounds of Prima-V powder. My stock of W231 is on it's last pound.
Cast a crudload of 127 RNFP and a decent amount of 107 SWC this week. Will be coating them in the coming weeks.

Bought some goodies for the press from Inline Precision, DAA, and Stoeger - will make it much easier to stay comfy/focused during long loading sessions now.

I'm fighting a leading issue right now, which I'm pretty sure is due to too-large DIA bullets, a bit long in the seating, and/or too high of a velocity. Amateur hour coating is certainly a potential factor. Started a one-book reloading journal to keep by the press for reference, filling it now with load data, SAAMI drawings, and burn charts.

Going to start from square one and figure out the leading while I still have 231, so when the new powder comes in I'm only messing with one variable. I did notice that my loads I've been working out of for years are out of a Speer manual, which has no lead data for 9mm in it. Previously I just downloaded by 10% and called it good, since that's what worked for my .45's. My new Lyman however, does have load data, with starkly different OAL's - and that's probably a hint of where my problems are coming from.

Getting out of casting my own - price is right but I don't have the time. Haven't had this many problems with .45, but 9mm is a whole different beast that you can't shortcut anything on for casting. Settled on 135gr sns round nose.

Put a daa click wheel on the powder measure to quickly get my loads dialed in. This and the micrometer on my seating die make it cake to change loads within caliber repeatably.

Upgraded the press with some goodies, but the inline fabrication handle is the largest improvement. Really looking forward to getting my press light from reloading innovations. Stoked to get my bulk order of bullets made and shoot a lot more.




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https://youtu.be/v_KvMtKyvTg. And it goes so much faster/smoother....


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Got a separator for my wet tumbling, decided to give it a go with the pins. Holy cow! With the separator, the pins come right out, and it's amazing how much filth they get out of cases that are already clean.

Necessary? No - not going to do it for brass I sell. But for me and my hobby, sure - something's right in the world when you can bring something from the grave to brand new. Time to get the pins out is on par with getting dry media out of cases.

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And the leftover crap - the cases were previously wet tumbled, without pins. It's way worse in person.

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...aaaa3373f4.jpgafter the bubbles settled.


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How to get your primer tube filler working right - for no extra dollars or work.


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https://youtu.be/_0Upz0CFSGc. For above post.



Fruits of labor for an hour 20 minutes today - had a couple case jams in the feed mechanism from jacked up rims and one seriously torn body.

1000 rounds of 135 grain, two powder charges. Case gauging is up next, but goes quickly with less than 3% failures.

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Just sold off the XL650, and this morning ordered a Super 1050. In the future I'd like to add automation to do several thinigs in parallel, but in the mean time it will offer some nice upgrades over the 650 when being ran manually. I anticipate that next fall I'll be able to really use this machine to it's capabilities, and in the mean time I'll just take my time setting it up and tuning it.

I've ran out of Winchester 231 and am now using Prima V. I didn't get to shoot beyond 7 yards due to the rest of the range being a bog, so the groups are just 'roughing' things in so I can see if there's a drastic change in powder charge before I start to mess with OAL to dial things in.

The chrony was being very finicky due to the bad overcast. I wanted to do ladders of 10 rounds each, but could only get strings of 5 (1 string of 4). I really like the initial results, much more consistent than Win231 with much less smoke and a smoother recoil impulse at the similar velocities. The fact that it's $13-15 for a jug, and each jug is 1.1 pounds, means that my dollar goes further with the powder too (10% volume discount off the bat basically).Attachment 25014

You mentioned sizing cast bullets. Many who shoot cast bullets in 9mm handguns have discovered that .357/.358 bullets perform better in that there is no leading and accuracy is better. The reason is that their 9mm barrels actually measure .357/.358 and not .355 as one might assume. Coatings can increase diameter up to .002 inch. Dardas at dardascastbullets.com is a vendor who'll allow the customer to choose diameter of the bullets shipped. Also he'll shipped unsized and unlubed for experimentation.

One point to consider when shooting cast bullets is that in some instances during the seating process, the case may size down the bullet from a desired diameter to a smaller one. I'll use 9mm bullets as an example. The expander button was likely made with the purpose of processing .355 jacketed bullets. If so, this expander, if used for .357/.358 cast bullets is too small. The case mouth will squeeze down the projectile. Using a bullet puller, you can measure pulled bullets to verify diameter. If this proves to be a problem, pm me to discuss remedies.

Willie,

I cut out casting, as the time investment was too much for me to justify any more. It’s a hobby in itself with plenty of variables, which I did enjoy, and I used .358 when I shot a Beretta with various profiles.

For a not much more I’ve switched to using commercial coated bullets. I use SNS 135 TC sizes to .357.

Interesting thought on the diameter decreasing during seating. Here’s a pulled bullet:
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Diameter is still .357


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Jeep, the phenomenon is not universal but is not uncommon either. It's occurrence has more to do with case dimensions after cases are resized and then expanded. Bullet hardness is a significant variable. Another is case thickness. Lyman sells an M die that alleviates the problem. You might read about it. Keep in mind that traditionally handgun dies have been produced to make good ammo with jacketed bullets. When using the larger diameter cast bullets, a new variable is introduced. Should you end up using an undersized sizing die(available from vendors or special order), you may find that your current expander no longer produces desired dimensions.

When using Lee dies to load 9mm ammo using scrap lead that was fairly soft, I experienced the swage down effect. To resolve it I replaced the regular 9mm expander with one made for the .38 S&W round. This swap allowed me to seat .358 diameter bullets without their being swaged by the case.

You're on your way to becoming proficient and knowledgeable in producing good ammo. You picked the caliber that offers the most challenges when using lead bullets. Already you figured out that .357 diameter works better. Since the 9mm case is tapered, you may notice that the larger bullets cause a bottleneck effect. Other than looking weird it's not something to be concerned about. Don't forget to plunk test different batches using your barrel. This way you'll find out real quick whether or not the rounds fit the chamber.

One other thing. More variation exists in 9mm cases than any other. Rim thickness, overall length, and case wall thickness are three parts of the case which can vary within brands and between brand. Military cases as a rule have thicker walls than do commercial cases. Many of these have crimped primer pockets. Perhaps the main reason for such variation is the extremely large number of 9mm ammo made per year.

If you can get large batches of brass from the same lot, you will be most fortunate. I was able to do this once with some beautiful WCC military 9mm brass and then again with .45 brass. With great luck, I bought 1000's of once fired Speer .45 ACP cases from a law enforcement
training range. These deals are out there. You have to look. Good luck.

Spent a few hours on Sunday picking up brass after a match at the local club. My compact Ammo-up isn’t the greatest - it’s a new tool, so I’m giving it a benefit of the doubt that it’s my lack of technique at this moment. My stand-by nutpicker worked as well as always. Not perfect, but good enough, and much faster than picking by hand. I didn’t do one bay with a bunch of brass due to the mulch, as it would require me to pick by hand, and I’d rather not do that if I don’t have to. I happily settled for 2 bays with high brass quantities, 1 with medium, and 1 with low.

The efforts gave me 3/4 of a 5 gallon bucket worth of brass for 2 hours worth of work. I’m sure there’s some .380 mixed in there, but the majority is 9mm, .38 Super/comp, .40, 5.56, steel 7.62x39, and some .45ACP. Next step is to sort it all.

The way I go about this is the plates with slots that many folks use, successfully. I took my old vibratory tumbler, removed the bowl, and mounted a 5 gallon bucket on the threaded rod. I then put the plates on top of the bucket, and dump in the brass. The video below shows how quickly it is to sort .45ACP out of 1/4 of that bucket of brass (about 2 minutes).

Mix and repeat for the other 2 plates, then put the .45 plate back in with the .380/9mm separator.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HIi43QK3rg0

Im interested in any load development / testing you have done for your Sig 226. I'll be starting my own thread shortly and this will be the main gun Im loading for to start.

I have two 226's (Legion and a SSE) both 9mm as well as a 224. In the 3 ive tested for max OAL size before hitting the rifling. In the stock barrels, all are over saami max. In my barsto barrel max oal for me is 1.15"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PhillySoldier

Im interested in any load development / testing you have done for your Sig 226. I'll be starting my own thread shortly and this will be the main gun Im loading for to start.

I have two 226's (Legion and a SSE) both 9mm as well as a 224. In the 3 ive tested for max OAL size before hitting the rifling. In the stock barrels, all are over saami max. In my barsto barrel max oal for me is 1.15"

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I honestly load my length and crimp to get the longest possible while still passing my case gauge. If it fits my case gauge, it will fit all 9mm I have.

I went with 135 after a bit of informal accuracy testing and found this weight, 124's, and 147's to be comprable, with the 135 recoil feeling like 147's, but getting me a few hundred extra bullets per case. I went with TC since it's way easier to dial in the bullet feeder with TC than RN.

After that it was doing chrony testing with a bullseye behind the chrony to test for groups and keep an eye on velocity vs. added powder amounts to make sure I wasn't doing something stupid. This results in accuracy testing as well as power factor generation/statistics at the same time. Sure, it takes more time up front, but it saves time in the end.

So life, happens, and after being out of reloading I'm finally back into it with new equipment. I no longer cast my own bullets due to time and location/frustration, I just buy plated bullets at the moment, and will buy a case of coated bullets once my 9mm bullet supply is exhausted.

Calibers reloaded -
.38 special w/ 158grain plated bullets over Winchester 231. 158 grain shoots POA/POI for my J frame revolvers, OAL is set by the cannelure of the bullet.
9mm Luger w/ 124 grain plated/125 grain coated over Winchester 231 124 grain shoots 6 o'clock hold for Valor, Blur has 100 MOA adjustment in the optic. Oal is set to 1.145".

Winchester 231 was settled on for its flexibility, past experience, ease of local purchase, price, and commentary by Lyman reloading about accuracy potential for of both of these cartridges. My last chrono numbers made power factor for Blur, just under for Valor.
Blur's fps (cold bore) 1073 then 1042/1034/1042
Valor's fps (cold bore) 1000 then 1008/1003/993/1011


Stand : Lee reloading stand. I was skeptical of how stable it would be but needed something compact, portable, and easy to disassemble for a move. This fit the bill and is shockingly stable. I've used the lower shelf as a holder for boxes of bullets and no extra weight, and find it does tend to 'shimmy' over the course of a reloading session or two, and is easily dragged back into place. I'm reloading on smooth concrete, extra weight on the bottom or on carpet/wood flooring would likely eliminate this shimmy effect. It's minimal and I have no plans at the moment to try and prevent it, save putting my left foot behind the front left leg. Works quite well with a garage stool that has an adjustable seat.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012829921?pid=324379

Scale: Frankford arsenal digital scale. It's far superior to a beam scale for my accuracy and ease of use requirements. A built in cover for the scale pad prevents damage in the couple drops I've given it without reducing any repeatability, and comes with a weight with a stamped weight to verify zero. I combine this with a powder funnel/pan combo to do spot checks of powder amounts. One thing manufacturing and life has taught me is that pursuit of perfection leads to stress levels and perfection to another magnitude beyond what your equipment is capable of producing; I simply tar out the scale with the funnel/pan combo and place the powder from 10 drops in the pan, divide by 10, and make sure that number is equivalent to my desired powder charge. The beam scale that Lee includes in the kit is alright at best - it never hurts to have 2 methods of measuring your powder to make sure one scale isn't completely out of calibration.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012948067?pid=755866
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012713364?pid=175512


Press (multiple) : Lee Value turret press kit w/ Lee carbide dies
I got this knowing I would upgrade relatively soon for 9mm, but wanted to start loading as cheaply as I could for 38 special and 9x19 without the time requirement a single stage has. I've used the auto disk powder measure in the past and it works fine, but the auto drum is much, much better, more precise, more repeatable, and easier to setup. I use Lee carbide dies which were sufficient until my shooting volume started to exceed my brass supply and I bought some brass for cheap. I started to have issues with .38spl bullets falling into the case upon seating and found this due to thin walls, usually RP head stamp brass. An EGW U die was purchased and fixed this problem in .38spl. I also purchased one for 9x19 to try and figure out a picky pistol, which ultimately needed gunsmithing work. I still use the U die for 9x19, because it hurts nothing at the end of the day and I had already purchased it. This press is now dedicated to .38special

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1013016267?pid=622290
https://www.egwguns.com/undersize-re...-die-9mm-luger

For Christmas I got a Lee Breech Lock Pro, mounted it on a steel plate for the above stand, moved my 9x19 dies over to it, obtained another safety primer system and auto drum system, and have a case feeder/collator setup on it. The press 'feels' slower than the turret press, but the ammo output is much faster. Yes, the priming system requires you to place a primer just like the turret, and handle a piece of brass and a bullet, it is far more efficient than the turret overall. I produced 500 cartridges without a case feeder last night while watching Forgotten Weapons series. While the press does allow functionality without the case feeder, the case feeder really speeds things up; you're now required to simply operate the safety prime and pick up a bullet, so material handling operations are reduced by a 1/3. Ammo is also much more consistent in OAL than the turret press. I'm very impressed by the single lock-ring eliminator Lee includes, and will order 3 more for my other dies.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1019986419
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1019986580
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020023248
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/101300663
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012832074
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1021759910
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012837891
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1016832532



To me, the Breech lock pro press offers easier setup than other Lee turret presses, and makes no attempt at imitating a Dillon (I think the LnL AP attempts to be a Dillon, and falls very short of it). Having owned Lee Loadmasters/Turrets/Single stages, Hornady LnL AP, Dillon 650/1050 some setup with various case feeders and bullet feeders, this press has the best bang-for-production and out of any progressive I've ever had while having much safer priming operation than a Loadmaster. A Dillon progressive with motorized case feeder will destroy it in production numbers, but Dillon also costs quite a bit more (for good reason I should add).




Edit - brass prep.

I use the shell sorters since I'm the only one picking up brass at my club, so a rough sort goes a long way to making my life easier, and I pick up every piece of brass I can find.

For cleaning, I'm a huge fan of the Frankford Arsenal wet tumbler. They have 2 sizes, I'd recommend getting the big one for $60 or so more. I don't use pins for bottleneck cases, as they could get stuck below the neck and good luck getting them out. I do use them for straight cases, as this stuff does an incredible job of cleaning the cases and by default getting a lot to the lead residue off/out of the cases so I have less exposure at the end of the day; since it's wet there's no dust on everything. If you use pins, the separator is practically a necessity, and is very very good at getting all the pins out of all of the cases. I use the 'brass dryer' to dry the cases - shake the snot out of them in the blue cage of the separator to get rid of as much water as possible, then load them up in the dryer and let it go overnight. You can use a food dehydrator; I chose to get the brass dryer version because there's no way an accident could happen and somebody uses the food dehydrator for food this way.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012721373
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1016958652
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1016298842

Load development 2.0 -

I changed over from Berry's 124 grain plated round nose to SNS 125 poly coated. For kicks I didn't adjust any dies, ran a few, and dropped them into the case gauge. No way do they pass, and it's a good reason to examine why you should double check our dies if you change bullets, even in the same weight range.

The difference is the bullets are .001" larger in diameter, and the straight portion of the bullet profile extends higher in reference to the bullet nose (more gentle ogive) with the bullet being slightly taller and a tapered base. The change in nose profile means the bullet contacts the outer rim of the bullet seater die plug versus the nose - this should result in better concentric runout (it's a semi auto pistol round, whatever) and higher % of rounds that pass case gauge if running near the limits of OAL. This change also means that the OAL must be adjusted at the die, as the bullet shoulder (whatever it's called - the rounded part) will sit deeper into the chamber for the same OAL.

All of this means the bullet must be seated deeper in the case. The taper base also makes it way easier to get the bullet in the case by hand. This means load development and verifying that the ammo meets power factor in both pistols has to be done again. No worries :-)

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For kicks/experimentation I also grabbed the lee bullet feed kit to play around with, and force myself to take a longer break during longer sessions. If you're not familiar with the breechblock auto, the due stations are extremely close, and the corners of the lee jam nuts are almost touching if you have to be in that orientation. Once you add the bullet feeder it make it so the bushings weren't fully engaged in one of my stations, and the other one could wiggle loose a bit. My fix was grabbing the Dillon lock rings as they are 1" across instead of 1 1/8" across. As far as the lee jam nuts providing a small free float, that's true - but this press has the same o-ring setup for the bushings themselves, making those slightly free-floating/self centering so running traditional style jam nuts doesn't loose that benefit. I'm not sold on the bullet feeder, since there's no collator - but we'll see what happens.





My thoughts on this press having ran single stages, turrets, Loadmasters, Hornady LnL AP, 650 w/ bullet feeder and case feeder, and 1050 w/ bullet feeder and case feeder is this:
it is quite a bit slower than the Dillon products due to the priming system having to be manually operated for each cycle and the 650/1050 designed from the get go with a high capacity case collator - add a bullet collator/feeder and you will absolutely never want to run anything else from a production standpoint.

This same system also makes it safer than the Loadmaster in the event of a primer detonation while seating (I've had it happen on a Loadmaster). It is simpler to keep running than a Hornady LnL AP while keeping better OAL consistency. It demolishes single stage and turret presses in volume and my elbow/shoulder isn't tight the next morning either.

For about the same price as a Lee turret you get a pretty reliable system with easy caliber changes that pushes higher production and less rushing. It allows for a simple, non-motorized, reasonably effective case feeding mechanism that the press was designed around, albeit the collator/capacity is low and you will need to rotate the tubes to keep the flow going (it's really a very, very small nit pick). The central rod that indexes the shell plate can be removed, making it manually indexing and simpler to teach people new to reloading what's going on and do a single case at a time. If you're not going to reload much rifle ammo, this honestly is the non-Dillon press to get in my opinion; the money you save will go a long way to buying components and buying an upgraded press at some point if you want to later.