According to Facebook this was announced at the Whirled Chute. No date on when it will go into effect.
According to Facebook this was announced at the Whirled Chute. No date on when it will go into effect.
Logic behind this?
This has been a suggestion from Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn in the past, as well as others. Of the changes in recent years I don't think this one hurts at all. I'd still like to see some more practical carry gear allowed, even if just mag pouch placement OWB's were allowed forward of the hip. Hell, even just a more forward and canted mag pouch would be a start. The irony is that canting it allows for better concealment for defensive use.
Now IDPA matches will take twice as long
I doubt that it will have my effect on the game at the upper levels. Most of the shuffling will be at the the mid to low levels with the fast running hosers dropping a position or two to the ones that are almost the same speed but slightly more accurate.
But if you can't sprint into and out of shooting positions you are still going to lose. Because you rarely have a choice on how to shoot a stage, IDPA is more determined by who can move the quickest between shooting positions, and less about the shooting.
LAV & Hackathorn talked about this at the 2011 Carolina Cup during one of our breaks. They were both saying that they were gonna push the issue back then.
As Im sure others who have shot/learned from them before they put a premium on accuracy. Im sure hats the reason for the rule. I have not been an IDPA member in 2 years...since the flat-footed reload rule came out. Now that has changed, again. Im just glad I don't have to keep up with all the changes anymore.
Since there has been talk about this change for more than a decade, by the folks involved in the original scoring design (and others), this is frankly long overdue. Amazed to see movement here, given how ossified IDPA has been.
KSTG anecdotally demonstrated this can be a significant change for the wider field in a number of stage layouts, although separating these effects from concurrent head box scoring zone changes was not clear.
We shall see what comes of this. Movement speed I think will still have more influence on results though.
Guess I'll have to get rid of my Glock and buy an HK.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I am not patient enough to do the math tonight, but as I recall, despite IDPA's reputation for prioritizing accuracy, the scoring for a miss, depending upon hit factor of the exact USPSA stage, was less punitive than a miss with IDPA scoring than USPSA scoring.
Robbie Leatham jokes that Bill Wilson developed IDPA scoring to have a game based on the pace he shoots. I don't understand this scoring change, on that basis, because although Bill shoots "snake eyes" frequently, he is a lot faster than the new, proposed scoring. Must be increasing the penalty for the LAV's shooting ability.
You're already fairly well damaged for down points compared to the USPSA I've shot, this frankly doesn't make any sense unless they want to continue with the foolish "this is tactical training" angle.
Of all the stupid things in IDPA that need to change, this is not one of them and their time is better spent elsewhere. They're making it really difficult to want to stay a member, and considering the issues people from the bottom all the way to the top have with the sport I'm having a damned hard time figuring out why it's popular in my area. Must be they don't know any better.
I recall this being a thing that a significant number of the founders wanted from jump street. They could accomplish the same thing by making the scoring zones smaller (and the whole target smaller, would be OK with me), but that would conflict with keeping the sport accessible to new shooters. Getting a high time is one thing, missing the target is another, I would think.
It's still a HF of 2 for IDPA scoring, minor just loses two points for a similar area of the target as a down -1. I consider 4 to be a low hit factor stage, so I don't dispute your math, as I think it confirms my point that a miss is only worth more in USPSA on low hit factor stages. On the affect of a miss in USPSA, it's only 15 points if you assume an "A" hit. Often, at least for me, misses happen where I was already accepting a C/D hit due to target difficulty (partial, mover, etc.), so the miss is really worth between 11-15 points, not exactly 15 points.
First, this is not a done deal. There is no date set and IDPA is in no mood to make any significant changes to the rulebook in the next year or two. They need to stabilize the sport from the 2015 Rule changes. Secondly, it's not a bad idea to get people to shoot more accurately. I will never forget I got beat at the Shoothouse Shootout 2 years ago by a guy who had over 90 points down and a few non-threats to boot, but was fast as hell. I was like 30 points and no non-threats. The point I am making is that it's not a bad idea to slow things down a bit and encourage more accuracy.
But, I am not a strong advocate for the change. I would rather see allowance for more non-threats in a stage, more movement allowed, different targets, simplification of the equipment rules and replacing the CCP division with an optics division. But just my personal opinion and I am but one voice.
Cody
Speed is not the only tactic, accuracy counts, especially in the self-defense world...
Let's not start another thread debating IDPA and USPSA. They are both valuable shooting sports that help shooters develop necessary skills. IDPA's strength is use of cover and no shooting boxes and use of standard handguns. IDPA, being a self-defense oriented sport should be slower, fat guys or not...BTW, we have a lot of younger shooters and most people shooting IDPA are NOT fat. Try to get your facts right.
USPSA allows for more speed and more creative shooting...good on ya!
We are both supporting gun rights, building pistol handling and shooting skills, and supporting the industry.
Cody
From an administrative POV, I want to simplify the rules on equipment. If I could change it, it would be this: For a given Division, if it fits the box and makes weight, and the safeties have not been disabled, you can shoot it. The rules are complicated enough without a whole bunch of other rules on equipment.
Cody
Because they said so, they want you to shoot IDPA their way, with guns how they picture it, carrying guns their way. IDPA has ever more increasingly gone to what the BOD wants, and damn everyone else's opinion.
Now what would be more interesting is to change the scoring all together.
Make the -0 worth 4 points, -1 worth 2 points, and the -3 worth one pointed. It requires 4 points on the target to neutralize, other wise you get a FTN.
That would change the game all together, making people having to look at the targets and ensure they got the hits they need.
Non-threats in both games eventually get used as penalty targets and nothing more. I've lost count of the number of NTs I've seen that changed a shooting position from "tight" to "never would I do this, ever, for any reason" and yet...this is the CoF and you shoot it.
So some guy plugging some NTs in IDPA doesn't necessarily mean reckless guy who callously shot a bystander. It means the guy who built the stage wanted to add some challenge. If IDPA, USPSA or anyone else wants to get people to take NTs seriously, then either DQ them if they hit one or use the "didn't finish CoF" IDPA math to figure out their final time. Either the NT should be a FTDR-level penalty or the targets should just be removed.
As to having 60 more points down and still winning...I suppose other people can hash out the speed/accuracy ratio. I don't see a problem, but YMMV.
"Just perpetuates the impression that IDPA is for slow, fat guys and will drive younger shooters to USPSA and 3 gun"
Just some experience speaking here: Not all slow fat guys have been that way all their lives, and something along those lines happen to all of us if we live long enough. Be nice!
Everything in this statement is incorrect. That being said, it is not an elected leadership, as in USPSA. The membership and club operators are IDPA customers and IDPA works very hard to keep their customers satisfied with the sport while continuing to evaluate how to improve it.
Cody
I was 38 points down on my last classifier, a full point per second would've killed my score. Interestingly, 21 people classified that day and only 1 person had less points down.