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My apologies for starting a new thread. Does anyone know of a forum dedicated to suppressors that is on par with pistol-forum? I'm looking for information regarding bolt action barrel lengths that work well with brand x suppressors, known good carbine setups for suppressed shooting, general information, etc.
Kind Regards,
Dan
I would be very interested, too - my knowledge level is somewhere south of zero, and my questions are so basic I a) don’t know how to properly express them and b) am embarrassed to ask them here. A suppressor centric forum where I can read would be hugely helpful.
Pretty sure there are some really squared away, and knowledgeable folks here who would be willing to share.
It took me many years to dip my toe in, and I had fantastic resources that entertained my constant questions.
I would say this forum is as good as any, really. There might be places like ar15.com that has more really knowledgeable posters, but also way more bullshit to wade through to find it, so meh.
https://pewscience.com/ is possibly a good resource, too, heard good things about it.
I think people tend to overcomplicate suppressors, just like with armor.
Form1 Forums was a great resource for roll your cans.
Unfortunately they were deplatformed this summer. Censorship via Terms of Service is real.
I’ve heard good things about pewscience as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Default.mp3
Honestly, I cruised silencer centric forums for years (I actually went out and helped sound meter silencers once…). I think you can find good information here as well as others. It’s not the early 2000’s with one or two people testing with sound meters. Information is freely exchanged and widely available.
Pew science seems to be a real innovator and is commonly respected.
You could take a look at https://www.silencertalk.com/forum/index.php.
I have quite a few cans, and noise level is now quite low on my list of how to rank them. How the can attaches to the gun is by far #1.
I just wish I could find the G19 of suppressors.
What do you want to know? Unless you go so short that stability becomes an issue there isn't too much you can do wrong regarding barrel length with cans on bolt guns. 16-20" is pretty optimal for a general use bolt gun that will be suppressed most of the time. I'd only go longer if you have a specific need for speed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan
Carbine (assuming DI AR) setup will depend on barrel gas port diameter, dwell time (gas port location in relation to barrel length), and spring/buffer selection. Adjustable gas blocks or gas venting carriers can help if you have a particularly gassy setup.
I feel like that's a Surefire... My 5.56 Mini has had countless rounds through it, including a lot out of a Mk18. It looks more worn outside than in. I don't know anyone who owns a Surefire can who has complaints--other than the cost (and maybe weight).Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavyDuty
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...bd71dbc017.jpg
Thank you all for the replies. Perhaps I am over-thinking the matter but I have not found a great deal of information regarding suppressed shooting. I appreciate the information and will consult the references provided.
Dan
I know plenty of folks that will complain about SureFires, including @Giving Back. I personally have no real complaints about mine outside of the tendency to carbon lock (particularly the 762 when run on a 16" SR-25, though I run suppressed all the time anyway, so not a big deal), and the truth is, plenty of folks would find plenty to bitch about on a Glock 19, too, so honestly, I would agree that SureFires are probably the closest thing to an "easy-button" these days, though like the Glock 19, there are plenty of great alternatives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clusterfrack
If you are able to, please sharpen up exactly what kind of information you want to get. It's difficult to decipher what you want to do or what you are most interested in. Things like barrel length will be caliber specific.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan
That all said here is my standard answer for most people when they don't quite know (yet) what questions to ask.
For me the first and far and away most important thing is how the suppressor attaches to the rifle. For me I run for the hills when faced with the prospect of 'moving parts' (when related to rifle suppressors). As a result I tend to opt for what I have found to be the best mounting solution, at least for me. There are numerous companies that make some form or another of a taper mount. You put a compatible muzzle device on your rifle and you attach the suppressor to that.
Some people do prefer direct thread, but I don't really see a lot of downfall to the traditional taper mount. One downfall of direct thread though is as you shoot, under recoil the suppressor can basically rattle loose. It all depends on how much you are shooting and so forth. With the taper mount it works like direct thread but it has a tapered surface that increases the surface area and hence the friction to keep it in place.
There are other types of QD mounts, but I opt to not use those because 1. I don't need it. 2. I don't particularly like them. If the suppressor can rotate or even partially rotate it will impact where your bullets impact from shot to shot.
Other than that I think the next two things would be weight and sound suppression. Again, depending on what you are shooting and how much, it really sucks to have something overly heavy hanging out there. If you can imagine putting a weight on the end of a broom stick, after a short while you will get tired. Same principle applies to suppressors.
That being said if you know what you are getting into you can actually balance your rifle so that it's much more balanced. It might be slightly heavier overall, but that's a lot better in my opinion than having something extremely nose heavy. That said they now have suppressors that are of a tubeless design. It cuts the weight down substantially. What they do is machine the baffles and instead of stuffing them into a tube, they just weld them together in series. I have one of those and it's really nice. It's definitely growing on me.
As far as sound goes, notice this isn't the top of the list. There are a TON of things that make a can louder or quieter than other cans. Some definitely do have superior engineering. That is unquestionable in my opinion. That being said things like ammo choice will make a HUGE difference. Again though the sound suppression thing goes back to what calibers. If you say are shooting 5.56, you will need ear protection still. It will be substantially quieter but not quiet enough to have a full range day without ears on. If that's the case that you still need ear pro, why fuss over some arbitrary concocted meter number regarding decibels? Unless you know specifically what the criteria of the test are, and you can see tests where they are done side by side, then discount some of that.
Don't get me wrong. Suppression is very important. It's just not at the top of the list. You definitely can buy suppressors that are not nearly as nice as others so it's important to shop around before making a purchase, especially since you just can't go pick one up randomly and take it home.
Another thing to take into account is the host. In older suppressor technology they would simply try to capture every last ounce of gas from a shot. That's fine, and it works well for a bolt action, but the minute you put that on something semi auto and you will be miserable. All that gas will escape and create a loud 'boom' right by your face where the action of the gun is. It might be 128 DB at the muzzle, but it also might be 146 DB at the ear with the same suppressor.
On that note many manufacturers now are essentially tuning their suppressors to run comfortably on semi autos. What results is a slightly louder muzzle, but the overall signature of the gun can be much less. In my made up example just above with the 'balanced' cans that 128 DB at the muzzle might go up to 132 DB, but the ear number might also go from 146 DB down to 134 DB so you end up with 132 at the muzzle and 134 at the ear or something along those lines.
Other things to consider are the materials the suppressor is made of. Suppressors go through A LOT of abuse. Shooting 3000 fps plasma through them is not exactly gentle. Some people try to go ultra light by using materials such as titanium. I've never owned one made out of that and the only time I've heard of one failing is when someone up north (like North Dakota or something like that) went out shooting on an extremely cold day. First shot at 20 below zero and his can split. Aside from living in frigid places I've never heard of failure from titanium. That said I am not sure of the durability for sustained fire when compared to other types of suppressors. I personally err on the side of being made like a tank.
Now though tubeless suppressors (same ones I mentioned above) can be made out of the tougher more traditional materials, but also get weight down to some crazy light weights. That said don't be obsessed with one criteria over the other. Look for something that checks your boxes of how and what you will be shooting.
And back pressure. Not only for the inconvenience/unpleasantness of getting gassed out, but the lead and toxicity/ carcinogen exposure as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clusterfrack
People talk about absorbing harmful chemicals through the skin when cleaning guns without gloves so how concerned should we be breathing in the same materials in aerosolized form.
There is another aspect that I only touched on in my post above. If a person is going to shoot primarily indoors and with a semi auto, the more I think about it the more something like an OSS suppressor makes sense. If I was a cop or something like that, for a 5.56 that would probably be high on my list of wants.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCM
On really low or no wind days, or when shooting indoors without a ton of ventilation it can make life suck for a while when you get gassed out. Basically an AR15 isn't air tight so the shooter gets enveloped in a big noxious cloud and that's no good. And definitely some cans are substantially worse about it than others.
It all depends on the criteria one wants. There is no shortage of options out there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clusterfrack
I would argue the Deadair Sandman cans and other modular cans using the Deadair Keymo mounting system are the G19. In addition to Dead Air’s own dedicated Key-no cans, they make Keymo adaptors for modular cans and there are multiple quality Keymo mounts from companies other than Dead Air such as Forward Controls Design, Sons Of z Liberty Hin Works, Lantac etc… and there is, of course, a military contract for tan / FDE Sandman S suppressors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Default.mp3
The surefire’s cans are good but the mounting system well rugged is a bit dated. Availability of the Surefire mounds from Surefire is hit or miss. This is a problem because Surefire has their intellectual property lockdown so you don’t see Surefire compatible mounts from anyone except sure fire.
Interestingly enough BNT recently announced US production of a suppressor which is compatible with sure fire mounts.
And… this is the issue. For a newb it’s like trying to drink from a firehose.Quote:
Originally Posted by alamo5000
Maybe. I’d need to wait 10 years before awarding the Glock-of-Suppressors to Dead Air.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCM
To me Glock represents a solid, boring, reliable, future proof standard from a company that’s never going away. (Not the latest tech, or even the best design).
I got bit by the “best can ever” claim with AAC, and then with SilencerCo, leaving me wishing I’d just bought another SureFire.
TBAC, on the other hand has proven outstanding, and it sounds like Dead Air may be similarly awesome.
Yeah, my first two pistol cans we're supposedly best of the best at the time I purchased them. However both of them went out of production within a year to two after purchase and there's absolutely no support from the companies on discontinued products. In fact one of the companies completely folded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clusterfrack
My point is even if dead air folds, the Keymo pattern could still be supported by others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clusterfrack
The .MIL is moving to OSS cans.
I'm very interested to see the new flow-through B&T cans
The whole thing is. LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavyDuty
Not that long ago I was new to this as well. Fortunately I had great people who guided me along.
After 6 or 7 years of owning a bunch of cans I think most new people can grasp the concepts in question. The problem lies in not knowing what questions to ask. Once people realize that they need a set of viable criteria based on what they are doing it's much easier to sort out the options.
Same for me, B&T seems to have a potential sweet spot with decent tech and history of delivering.Quote:
Originally Posted by littlejerry
Prices sound reasonable, at least once they get their Florida manufacturing online.
I agree with the above, db reduction is not my number one criteria. Mount, weight, size matter more to me.
For pistol cans, I like the Silencerco Osprey, because it mounts asymmetrically below the bore axis. Obscures the sights less. I bought mine in 45, and I can use it on 9 and 45.
Get a good .22 can that is rated for 5.7x28, and disassembles for cleaning. I have a Silencerco Sparrow. Others are nice, too.
Get a good 30 cal can. But think about your mount system. You will be buying lots of those. I chose TBAC, and have several cans that share the same brake mount. I like the titanium cans for the weight, and do not need a full auto rating. I use 30 cans on 6.5, 6mm, and .223. TBAC are very good for precision rifle shooting, I use them mostly on my bolt guns.
My older cans (AAC) I sent off to be remachined to 1.375x24, so I can use a common brake mount. TBAC brake for me, Keeps things simple.
Get a trust. Makes the paperwork for multiple cans and family members simpler and more flexible.
Find a good dealer in your state. I recommend Hansohn Brothers in VA. Visit and spend a few hours learning hands-on. Worth a lot more than my internet advice.
Enjoy!
I dunno……..get comfortable paying a one time tax to save your hearing…….
Multiple times.
Shrug.
Attachment 86052
Interested in hearing more about OSS, reading on their website and they seem pretty awesome. I don't like the idea of blowback, wondering how much of this is happening with the Surefire can's. Honestly was about to purchase one from Surefire and still may if they are indeed some of the most rugged out there, as it will just sit more than being shot with ammo being what it is today.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCM
The thing in my case that makes me still lean to Surefire as well is I've already got a Surefire 3 Prong FH installed from factory and really want to avoid replacing for one of the OSS compatible devices to mount to. I will say this, their cans don't look as rugged as the Surefire to me but looks can certainly be deceiving.
I do, but it's mostly guys that thought the SF cans would do better in the db reduction area. If durability, flash suppression, and low IR signature(which isn't a concern for most people) are the major wants in a suppressor, I feel like SF is a solid contender. Oh, and they're a company that probably isn't going anywhere. The decibel reduction isn't terrible, and the tone is quite nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clusterfrack
I think the Keymo is a great locking collar type attachment system, and the Sandman S sounds great with 300BLK and other 30 caliber guns, but it leaves something to be desired on 5.56 guns, at least the way my ears perceive it. They've been teasing a 5.56 duty can for a while, but they released the multi caliber Primal 46 last year instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clusterfrack
If I had to give the title of The Glock 19 of Suppressors to one, I'd probably go with the YHM Turbo T2. Not just because I own one, but because it impressed me so much for the price, which is basically the cost of a Glock 19.
I'm intrigued by the Thunder Beast cans, but no one I know has one and they are rarely in stock, but I've only heard good things.
Even with a .070" Crane Spec gas port in my MK18, I felt I was inhaling too much crud, I have asthma so I may be more sensitive to it than others. I remedied that by installing a BRT EZTUNE GAS TUBE from Black River Tactical. No more getting gassed out, gun runs smoother, and it doesn't puke as much carbon back into the internals.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCM
How it sounds doesn’t enter into it for me. I don’t notice unless there’s something unusual.Quote:
Originally Posted by Casual Friday
Keymo is heavy and unnecessarily complex. I know that this is not a popular opinion but i've had more issues with my keymo mounted devices than I have with direct thread, YHM or Griffin Plan A adapters.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCM
I divested myself of four Keymo devices and only have a Sandman K left in my inventory. I dislike Keymo so much that i'm considering sending my Sandman K to Echo Machine to have him chop it off and rethread it 1.375X24.
The G19 of suppressor mounts is direct thread plus torque plus rocksett. It's not gucci. It simply works.