Van hits pedestrians' on London Bridge in 'major incident'

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Originally Posted by voodoo_man

I have lived in a literal police state, and believe me when I say the US is as far from that as the UK is from it.

As long as citizen are allowed to do whatever they want, whenever they want, there won't be much of any issues.

The problem here is that the politicians and left group think wants more refugees, more anti English "culture" and more non-assimilated immigrants. That is something we here, in the US, generally do well to overcome, though we still have our issues. In the UK there seems to be a legitimate issue with acceptance of other cultures at the expense of their own. That is unacceptable and that is the root cause.

This isn't a hardware problem, as you can have uniformed LE on every corner with rifles and it'll still happen, like in Israel, like in NY, like in any other city with a major problem with the current left wing ideology which promotes this type of thing.

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I'm not arguing with your logic. I no longer recognise the place I was born and spent my formative years.

My point is where do you draw the line and how do you draw the line.

London has been suffering from terrorism since the early 70's, a lot you do not hear about, much the same as you do not hear about many quiet FBI run ops in the US. The Israelis have been dealing with it since the birth of Israel, and as you rightly point out they have problems stopping it - I worked with some of their people for a couple of years sharing expertise. As long as you want to maintain a free society you will never fully prevent actions like this happening - what you do is make it so painfully obvious to any potential perpetrators that you will turn their life into a living hell and grind up their bones when you catch them that they will think twice about conducting such acts.

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Originally Posted by TGS

Even if it's just Blues with his trusty J-Frame, if you hold them off and allow more innocents to escape you have done your part in the concept of dying well.

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Well, I appreciate the position you've put me in but Blues only carries his J-frame within walking distance of his home unless it's serving as a backup to one of his Glocks. That said, I'd be proud to serve and hope I'd have the ability and wherewithal to complete the rest of the quoted sentence.

There are worse ways to shuffle off this mortal coil. (And, I've had the honor of training with the SAS when they came to Miami as our guests and provided instruction to our team.)

Just watched the New Scotland Yard press brief. Three attackers shot dead within 8 minutes of the first emergency services call: first call at 22.08hrs, attackers dead by 22.16hrs.

Apparently they were wearing simulated suicide vests. And there is still chatter of 4 attackers and not 3 so it will be interesting to see how the investigation unfolds and the personal linkages it throws out.

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Originally Posted by Chuteur

Just watched the New Scotland Yard press brief. Three attackers shot dead within 8 minutes of the first emergency services call: first call at 22.08hrs, attackers dead by 22.16hrs.

Apparently they were wearing simulated suicide vests. And there is still chatter of 4 attackers and not 3 so it will be interesting to see how the investigation unfolds and the personal linkages it throws out.

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I watched that same presser. Outstanding work by the responding officers. (I didn't catch whether the vests were dummies or not...but I think I heard that they may have been.)

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Originally Posted by blues

I watched that same presser. Outstanding work by the responding officers. (I didn't catch whether the vests were dummies or not...but I think I heard that they may have been.)

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I read one news report saying they were armor vests.

I wonder why they would wear dummy bomb vests....maybe to ensure death instead of being taken prisoner? Current US LE doctrine that I've been exposed to is that if a hostile is an IED, you shoot until brain matter is visible....regardless of whether they are on the ground and shouting surrender.

Man this shit is ad nauseum ridiculous...

Arm citizens with paintball guns and ammo filled with pig blood/pig fat. Pepper spray laced with pig blood. While that wouldn't *stop* a terrorist, it just may dissuade the fuckers who believe the contact with pork will negate their entry into lalagetlaidapaloosa land... Hell, carry squirt guns filled with it and publicize it. Anyone screaming death to infidels, the west, or for sharia? Hit 'em with the pig blood water balloons. Make it known that any terrorist remains will be officially handled by pig slaughterhouses and combined with the normal refuse.

Doesn't need to be pure blood, just having some in there should do the trick.

Police can coat all bullets with pig fat 'grease'.

Hmmmm, since, apparently, waterboarding isn't torture... er.. pigbloodboard anyone with terrorist connections.

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Originally Posted by TGS

I read one news report saying they were armor vests.

I wonder why they would wear dummy bomb vests....maybe to ensure death instead of being taken prisoner? Current US LE doctrine that I've been exposed to is that if a hostile is an IED, you shoot until brain matter is visible....regardless of whether they are on the ground and shouting surrender.

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I think they may have worn dummy explosive vests to better (psychologically) control their intended victims and prevent potential heroics. Again, I'm speculating because I'm not sure if any of this has been reported as fact one way or another.

Meanwhile, the US "news" media continues to beclown itself:
Seen at Instapundit:

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Instapundit » Blog Archive » HERE’S WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THE LONDON TERRORIST ATTACK SO FAR. And here’s what we know about NBC’s stellar night of journalism: MSNBC Anchor’s Response to London Terror Attack: Could Police Be ‘Overreacting?’

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Originally Posted by Chuteur

My point is where do you draw the line and how do you draw the line...

- what you do is make it so painfully obvious to any potential perpetrators that you will turn their life into a living hell and grind up their bones when you catch them that they will think twice about conducting such acts.

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Respectfully, I submit that there are people with some degree of imunity to that tactic. Members of fanatical, splinter death cults like these sorts may not think twice, since they are only capable of thinking one way about the world.

Bluntly: if someone's goal is to hurt, kill, and terrorize people, and someone on the scene doesn't immediately fuck them up and cause damage, then they are going to hurt, kill, and terrorize people... period.

Philosophically, this whole forum is sort of predicated on the foundational belief that equiping joe and jane bystander with the means to exact a price from bad actors in real time; to increase the cost for assholes whenever they act out on their assholic motivations—that's the most pragmatic strategy.

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Originally Posted by Sidheshooter

Respectfully, I submit that there are people with some degree of imunity to that tactic. Members of fanatical, splinter death cults like these sorts may not think twice, since they are only capable of thinking one way about the world.

Bluntly: if someone's goal is to hurt, kill, and terrorize people, and someone on the scene doesn't immediately fuck them up and cause damage, then they are going to hurt, kill, and terrorize people... period.

Philosophically, this whole forum is sort of predicated on the foundational belief that equiping joe and jane bystander with the means to exact a price from bad actors in real time; to increase the cost for assholes whenever they act out on their assholic motivations—that's the most pragmatic strategy.

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Whilst I agree, I also believe in people being competent in their firearms handling and use. Sometimes I see little to no evidence of that which gives me no warm fuzzy feeling as to how useful most individuals would be if they were being shot at themselves. I have seen hairy arsed soldiers freeze up when the real shooting starts, and they have been trained.

You'll have to forive and bear with me, I come from a place where the culture is different, even though I have been around firearms for most of my life. If you think I'm bad you should go shoot with some Germans, they are so upight they make me look like Genghis Kahns younger brother.