I've witness some pretty sick 25 yard offhand shooting with factory plastic sights on a Gen 4 G17. Blasphemy! Archers and arrows.
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I did some more shooting today, this time with a gen 4 G19, completely stock except for Trijicon 3 dot night sights. Same ammo (Speer Lawman, 115gr +p FMJ).
I shot some more 50 yard groups prone that I did not photograph with a co-workers G17. I think I am more accurate at distance shooting prone than using the sandbag rest.
50 yds, from sandbag rest, 5 rounds, 1 called flier high.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...o08/image1.jpg
100 yds, from prone position, 6 rounds
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...8/image1-2.jpg
I went out yesterday afternoon to our hunting property to zero some rifles @ 100 and then hunt the evening. After seeing this thread, I decided to take a couple pistols and try some longer range pistol shooting. I fired 10 shot groups, all standing freestyle at 25, 50, 75, and 100 yds. The first four groups I fired with my training gun, which is an exact copy of my carry gun and is a Gen 4 Glock 17, stock besides minus connector, extended slide stop, and sights (TCAP front, Defoor rear). I used 115 gr Atlanta Arms "match" ammo. The final 10 shot group was back at 25 yards and was with another Gen 4 Glock 17, but this one with a KKM drop-in threaded barrel and Dawson adjustable sights.
I wasn't terribly impressed with the first 25 yd target. I've definitely shot better than this at the local 25yd indoor range:
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/a...1D22C3B8AF.jpg
50 was actually not too bad. I had one go wild out to the right. I counted it as "-5"
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/a...7FE1F668FD.jpg
75 was where things started getting difficult. Eye focus starts to play a huge role as well as wobble zone. It's hard to see where you're holding:
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/a...49862853C0.jpg
And finally 100. The cardboard backer is 24in by 24in. I dropped one round completely off the cardboard, but managed to keep 5/10 on the 8.5x11 paper. For the 100 yd mark, I was holding (as best I could see) the top of the front sight on the top edge of the white paper:
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/a...7A2C964F8B.jpg
Then, I went back to 25 with the KKM gun and as GJM said, it seemed really close. I somehow couldn't force myself to slow down and I fired this group in probably 30 seconds. My best ever score on a B-8 @ 25yds (and it should be better. I really feel I could pull a 100 with this pistol):
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/a...3B07B14A9F.jpg
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/a...9369A0A6E5.jpg
One other point of interest is the aggregate group of the entire 50 rounds. Pretty well centered overall:
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/a...4920C9E4BF.jpg
Those are good targets, especially for standing unsupported at 50 and 100.
That is a very well behaved gun. Here is my picture from this weekend - same platform, not the same exact gun,
shooting from 25 yards two handed standing, generic factory FMJ ammo, after 6hrs on a 30 degree F range. There were no previous attempts, this was at the end of the day, getting ready to leave, after having shot a maximum of 30-35 rounds during demonstrations running drills.
Target is oriented in this picture as it was on the range.
Shot 1 is lowest (POA was 1.25" center square.
Shots 2, 3 are immediately above
I felt 4 go high left, and 5 go high right. Otherwise they would have probably been stacked up in a line above each other.
P210-6
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...psf09dfd2d.jpg
Today was 100 yard day. Set up a USPSA cardboard and a MGM mini B/C steel at 100 yards.
I shot my Gen 3 Glock 17, ISP prefix, Taran Tactical FO sights, OEM barrel, minus connector and otherwise stock trigger. I was shooting five round groups. First group fired was with PMC 115 ball. It just felt inconsistent to my ear, and I had an A, B, C, D and Mike. Went to 115 grain Lawman ammo for the duration of the distance shooting. This was the first five round Lawman group, shot from sitting, and only the second group I fired, pressing the trigger pretty quickly. Here was the group:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...ps14d2ef67.jpg
I fired another group, and noted there was a approximate 10 knot wind from the left. Here was my group:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...ps037973b7.jpg
So, would a 10 knot wind at 100 yards have this kind of effect on 115 FMJ?
Then I focused on the MGM mini B/C, holding on the left edge of the steel to correct for the wind out of the left. I went 5/5, which was a happy thing:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...ps827d1422.jpg
Feeling pretty good about my G17, I grabbed my carry pistol, a Gen 3 17 cut to 19 butt length with HD sights. I have noted that when I shoot the middle of an IPSC head at 25 yards, this pistol impacts near the bottom of the head. Holding just below the head, my shots were hitting the bottom of the IPSC target. I tried elevating in the notch, and that didn't work satisfactory, so I next focused on the MGM B/C. First I went 4/5, and then 5/5 at 100. However, I had to hold at the top of the steel to hit the bottom. See below:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...ps57923d32.jpg
It was interesting, because while I really like HD sights out to 50 yards, today I much preferred the Taran FO sights at 100. I think I need to get a .215 front with regular height rear, and see if it gets my POI where I want it to be.
I then finished up with a 100 yard Bill drill at 100 yards with the Taran pistol. I called one I yarded, but otherwise had 5 hits:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...ps57567dbc.jpg
All in all, I was very pleased with the stock Gen 3 at 100 yards. I then went and shot the Garcia dot drill at 7 yards, and the dots felt pretty big.
Very nice, GJM, that is excellent!
My wife wanted to shoot 100 yards again this afternoon, to iron out a sight adjustment at 100 on her Glock 19. Funny, as I was dragging stuff to 100 yards, my buddy called me and started poking me about how 100 yard shooting was practicing stuff I was already decent at, and not necessarily helpful to USPSA.
In any event, we started shooting at 100. My bright idea of the day was to shoot the white side of the target, for better contrast against the brown dirt. First, I shot a Gen 3 17 with HD sights, that were regulated, to see how they did at 100. Here was my group at 100, shooting Lawman 115 FMJ, holding at the top of the A zone:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...ps2dcf54c2.jpg
Then I shot a Bill drill at 100 yards -- six shots, one flyer off the paper:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...psabc7bb82.jpg
Feeling like that pistol was POI, I grabbed my #2 G17 with Taran sights, and OEM barrel, and shot this five shot group at 100 yards from sitting:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...psdccc7e86.jpg
I don't know what happened to one shot, but the four on the paper are, far and away, the best group I have shot at 100 yards with a service pistol in my life. I looked for a double, but it wash't there.
Then feeling frisky, I shot 5/5 off hand at 100 yards with this pistol:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...pse8c27775.jpg
I then upped the ante, by trying to shooting the head of the IPSC target at 100 yards. I went 5/5, but all 5 were misses. I think I shot over the target, and will need to work on that some more in the future.
To end the session, I set up El Presidente, to see whether this 100 yard thing helped or hurt my close in shooting. My first run was 6.16 down 3 C's, and then I shot a 5.71 down two C's El Prez. That works out to a 9.807 HF or 95.57 run, which is certainly a PR for me. I finished up with a 5.53, down 2 D's, or a 91.60, which still would deb a PR. So, while I can't swear the 100 yard group shooting did it, it certainly didn't hurt my closer in shooting.
Before I forget, I have had excellent results shooting Lawman 115 FMJ for accuracy challenges from 25-100 yards. It is available for just a slight premium to shooter ball, and groups on par in accuracy with Gold Dot 124+P, HST and Ranger T. It is pretty stout, feeling +P, making it perhaps not the best choice for high round count training sessions, but not objectionable for my distance shooting.